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December 8, 2012
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How does an Atheist know what is right or wrong if morals are subjective?

:iconseek-jesus-christ:
Seek-Jesus-Christ Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2012
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:iconpure-in-heart:
pure-in-heart Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012  Student Filmographer
I'd say society and environment plays a major role in forming one's moral code, whether a person is an atheist or not
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:icongenstian:
genstian Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Professional Artist
Turn the question, how does christians know whats right since the book tell them to do so much evil, kill non-believers, kill gays, beat bad children and so on. I've yet to meat anyone living after biblical morality.
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:iconkaput6no:
kaput6no Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012   Digital Artist
Well it's simple, like the theists, atheists have their own subjective version of morality.

Two atheist may have two different opinions about morality, but the same can be said about those who believe in God, just look at the hundreds of different interpretation of God's words, let's take killing for example, some may argue that it's forbidden and wouldn't kill even to protect themselves of their family, other would gladly kill for their faith and other would only kill for self-defense.
Morality will vary from one individual to another, religion is not a concrete path but more of a general direction in my opinion.

On a personal note, I believe that we human are unable to comprehend God, so I prefer to keep a critical view on what's considered as "canon" in the book...
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:iconabeautiful-world:
abeautiful-world Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
well put :-D
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:iconaarows:
Aarows Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student General Artist
I can not speak for others but I have a somewhat unusual take on morallity. I have Asperger's Sydrome(a form of high functioning autism) so I experienced delayed social development and empathy. Because of this I've had to structure my morallity on something other than empathy. For me the results are as follows:

1.Life is of the highest value, without it there is no meaning, value or really anything
2.My life is shared with others i.e. no man is an island unto himself (this is one of the reasons people feel sad when someone close dies, they have, in essence, lost a piece of their self)
3.Degrees of connectivity are important but ultimately all are connected

On this rational basis I have built many other principals but those are more subjective and experience based, these three concepts are what I feel to be a universal basis for morallity. Some use the concept of an afterlife to justify actions that would otherwise violate morallity, this is a very dangerous line of thought as it can be highly destructive. I do not intend to disparage religion, simply those that use it as an excuse. I wash my hands of no action, I learn from the past and move on. No regrets, no justifications, just life and growth.
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:icondutchconnaisseur:
DutchConnaisseur Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
He ask a Christian of course. Why do you think we keep them around?
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:icondancingflammes:
DancingFlammes Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Logic, Common sense, Empathy... We don't need a book to feel and to know what is right and wrong.
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:icon4seasonswinter:
4SeasonsWinter Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
How does one know what is funny or not if humor is subjective?
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:iconblackpoppies:
blackpoppies Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
There's a reason that the Golden Rule (treat others as you'd want to be treated) crops up in so many religions... because it's common sense and empathy that are really at the heart of morality, not checking in a rule book.
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:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
Common sense varies from culture to culture.

Remember the British were all crazy about the way Zulu warriors would cut open fallen Britt's stomachs.
The Zulu did it to free the spirit trapped in the body, the British called it multilation of a corpse.
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:iconblackpoppies:
blackpoppies Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Of course! I was arguing from the perspective that morals are subjective. Because they are, all we have to go on is our common sense and empathy. The Zulus aren't any less in the right than the British in that scenario - there is no real right and wrong, just the empathy and common sense to try and make the best decision. Perhaps if the Zulus and British better understood each others' customs for dead bodies, their empathy would have led them to behave differently.
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:icontheawesomefaerie:
TheAwesomeFaerie Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012   Traditional Artist
How does a Christian know what is right or wrong when they cannot work it out without help from a deity?
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
Spiritualism is a bit of the out of the norm. Yet its baised off at least some emotional logic. There is bound to be conflict with certain things that make up a persons perseption of life.
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:icontheawesomefaerie:
TheAwesomeFaerie Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012   Traditional Artist
There is some emotional logic, but a lot of the rules make no sense.
Also, if you need the threat of hell to keep you in line, you are horribly morally deficient.
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
Not in the case of moral virtue. Some people have it others don't. But in some respects like most things virtue takes time to build on till it becomes something strait forward.
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:icontheawesomefaerie:
TheAwesomeFaerie Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012   Traditional Artist
I'm sorry, you lost me there. I think that if you need a religion with a heaven and a hell and pointless rules, just to make you be a good person, then there is something wrong with you.
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
Ok let me see if i can explain a bit better.
Virtue(of life), a state of mind that only can be obtained thrue reflection of self or observation of others then careful compairison to your self. True virtue is only gained when the person feels confertable with that virtue of life. As well as being able to act on it accordingly.

I believe in the "free mind, free body, free life" aspect. For me religion is a perspective that can be used to create and improve moral stature if the need arises. On top of that science would be used for a more logical aproch to questions that can't be solved from a religious perspective. I learn from experince(like most poeple) and adapt acordingly.
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:icontheawesomefaerie:
TheAwesomeFaerie Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012   Traditional Artist
So, believe in the teachings of how to act, rather than in all the whole "god made the world" crap? That actually sounds pretty reasonable.
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
Philosophy is a powerful thing and some take it very mutch for granted. The poeple that are free thinkers of today more or less might have the same philosophy that i do. Still there is alwase going to be a flaw in reasoning somewere. I geuss mine would have to be survive or die to an extreame degree.
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:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
:iconthis2plz:
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:iconanatarakentara:
AnataraKentara Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
What hurts someone is bad.
What does not is good.
What hurts someone extremely is extremely bad.
What makes someone happy, without hurting someone, is extremely good.

Generally logic and common sense leads us, no?
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Not really lol I get a shot for a illness it hurts, therefore its bad
I took lots of cocaine and it feels great, therefore its good
I killed a innocent man and the thrill was awesome, therefore its good
Generally logic and common sense leads us, no. Nope it isn`t a good moral stand point to say cause it hurts its bad, or cause it feels good it good
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
I can see how that is more complex than that. To me its more of a balance. Creation, balance, choas.

Its different from every person to the next on what morals they have vs the other. There is no one right or wrong thing. As long as people have there perseption of what is the world as a whole.
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Have to dissagree with the no right or wrong part but if thats how you go at it fine with me.
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
Well then think about it then. What dose things of nature do when its threatened? Be subjective to one point but keep your mind open.
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Nature has no morals, that is the problem with using it as a moral standpoint. Only the need to survive, which can lead to several questionable things
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:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
Exactlly. So what is the stand point of a person trying to survive at all? To continue to exsist. Experince, life, move forward into the future. I maybe agnostic to an extent but i know what it was like before i shifted my persective from an Athiest. Morals slow you down some. But they keep you alive.
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
please explain, as you said you didn't beleive in right or wrong. Explain what you mean in your comment
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(1 Reply)
:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
imao if atheist see morals as opinionated, then they see they only see it as adaptable to how one lives and tries to survive. This is flawed however because if asked there moral standpoint on racial slavery, rape, or abuse they can only say it is opinionated and how that person choose to survive lol
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
Slavery is supported by biblical scripture.

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Quoting shows little credibility. Telling the slaves advice and supporting are two different things.
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
I only quote to show that I'm my position is not baseless.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

My opinion would be that Christ did not abolish slavery as what is a Christian but a slave to God?

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Again when quotes take up most of your arguement, it becomes lazy and has little credibility
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:iconreesewhyte:
reesewhyte Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012   Digital Artist
Evasive, weak retorts show NO credibility. Especially when you can never properly back any of the nonsense you spew on these forums.
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Oh you again... Not really in the mood.
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:iconreesewhyte:
reesewhyte Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012   Digital Artist
Haha, of course you're not. Thinking must be another sinful activity.
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(1 Reply)
:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Again Qouting gives little credibilty these are laws and advice. Laws are made to regulate and control or protect which they did for slaves. I`m tired of you troll go away...
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
If slavery is truly immoral then would not God have abolished it from the beginning? Again you dismiss evidence held against you because you have no argument to defend against it.
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Not really, almost every civilization was built up by slavery, God made rules and laws to make sure slaves were treated right as the Isrealites themselves were slaves.
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012
Then you admit the fluidity of morality. What at one time was common practice is now considered is now the definition of immoral unless you believe that slavery should be accepted today as it was in biblical times?
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(1 Reply)
:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
Doesn't matter.
Morals are not objective.
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
don't care for your opinion
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
So to sum it up, Athiest only see morals as survival method for each individual, therefore see no good or bad to morals, it is flawed because they replace the concept of "good and bad" with the concept of "survival" so The Shooting in Conneticut or Racial Slavery would be opinionated.
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:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Hobbyist
"Athiest only see morals as survival method for each individual"

Where-as a religious person sees morals as a deciding factor for what kind of afterlife they get.

Shit, that sounds awfully similar, doesn't it?
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Not really, Hell and Heaven are reward and punishment a divine justice. Not a sense of survival which anything goes.
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:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Hobbyist
Not wanting to suffer eternal punishment isn't survival?
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:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
No, it isn`t lol survival is the act of trying to exist or live. Your already dead YOHOHOHOHO skull joke
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:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
This topic sucks and you should be ashamed for posting garbage.
Next time put in some effort.

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:iconsvataben:
Svataben Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Christian values are a fleshing out of basic human programming + some culture, and nothing more.

Considering how murderous, callous, bigoted, and merciless the Christian God is depicted as in the Bible, I'd say it's a wonder that Christians consider themselves moral at all.
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:iconvulpimo:
Vulpimo Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Morality isn't subjective.
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