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December 4, 2012
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Convince me why abortion should not be allowed.

:iconredmarlin:
redmarlin Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2012
Normally, I try to see both sides of an argument. However, abortion is one of those things where I have not heard any argument against it that I feel has any merit. So this thread is very simple: if you are against abortion, for whatever reason, please explain to me why you feel that way.
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Devious Comments

:iconproudlandscomic:
ProudLandsComic Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2013  Professional Filmographer
This debate becomes particularly thorny because it involves the question about when a life begins.  When does a person begin to exist?  Everyone has their own thoughts on the matter and unless we could conclusively prove when life begins, the charge of murder of the person/fetus/zygote/cell cluster still stands in the minds of many.  This is why for many people abortion is a big problem and such a hot button issue.

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:iconjosephvlives:
JosephVLives Featured By Owner Dec 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I'm against abortion.

Although I would never personally put a woman in the position where she had to have one.

Sex is not important to me.
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:iconbotan:
Botan Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I've got a very complex opinion on abortion, but to make it simple, let's put it like this ---> Basically, I'm against abortion, BUT I am definitely pro-legalisation. How so? I do believe abortion is a sad choice and that women who made it must be having really good reasons. On the other hand, however, many women are litterally FORCED into abortion, against their will, because, for example, their parents don't like her having an affair with "that guy", or for any other reasons. In that case, abortion is no longer a choice, is it?

Anyway, I consider abortion to be really the last of the final choices and that every other reasons for keeping the baby should be considered first. But then, once the choice is made, to terminate the pregnancy, I mean, the woman should be given all the medical and, above all, moral support to make this process end up safely and without major damage to her psyche and body.

In other words, if we really can't save the life of the kid, let's at least save the life of the woman.
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I believe in the phrases, "Adoption, not abortion" and "Your mom was pro-life." Basically, if you are raped or get drunk and, you know... From the moment the reproductive cells unite, a life is created. Do you really want to destroy something that never had a chance to live? Think of what could happen. Think of it as if it were you being aborted. If you don't want the child, don't engage in intercourse. If you're pregnant, do not abort! After you give birth, if you still don't want the child, give it up for adoption!
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:icontheartofcbyoung:
TheArtOfCBYoung Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Then you believe in a blatantly false statement, as my mom is quite pro-choice, as are many parents.

If I were aborted, I would have gone from no consciousness to no consciousness. I never would have had the capacity to care. I don't see how it would be any different than if my parents just decided to cuddle on the night I was conceived.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
You believe in forcing a woman who has been raped to go through the financial, emotional, social, and physical burden of pregnancy and childbirth? You favor punishing her for being raped. 

If I was aborted then my parents would be happier. Don't lie to yourself and think otherwise. The vast majority of our parents gave up an incredible amount to have you. More than you know and more than THEY know. Also, a fetus has no cognitive functions therefore it would not realize it is alive, let alone aborted. 

You'll understand more about "intercourse" when you're older. You are ignorant to both sex and childbirth. Giving birth is not something the majority of people will do just to do. 
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm 14, okay? I word things incorrectly. And I know much about it already. I know the process, and all that. Because I was TAUGHT about it by women.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
I did not see any words that were poorly chosen from a grammatical standpoint. Don't beat yourself up in that regard. It was the content I took issue with. You were told by women thus you believe it. Do not make that mistake again though. Believe nothing without proof and evidence behind it.
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:iconmclandis:
Mclandis Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
From the moment the reproductive cells unite, a life is created.

First of all, no it isn't. At conception, the "life" that you are talking about looks like this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bla…
How exactly is this thing a "baby?" The only way you can claim it to be human is that it has human DNA, just like a cancer cell does.

Second, even if we accept life beginning at conception, why does that matter? Being alive confers nothing special on anything. In fact, if you actually look up miscarriage statistics, a majority of conceptions never make it to week 5 due to rejection by the mother's own body (this can be caused by something as minor as the fetus having a different blood type). Tell me again how every life is sacred?

Think of what could happen. Think of it as if it were you being aborted.

Umm...I wouldn't be around to have this discussion, nor would I be able to care. A fetus is inert, unlike the mother.

If you don't want the child, don't engage in intercourse.

And that's not gonna happen. For one, consent to sex is not consent to being pregnant any more than owning a house is consenting to robbery.
Most sex is for non-reproductive purposes, something which makes sense given how we evolved. You're also ignoring sexual assault and incest victims, as well as women with life or health threatening pregnancies.
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
First of all, it is life. Second of all, we didn't evolve.
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:iconclockworkknight:
ClockworkKnight Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2013
Humans  evolved. We didn't just spring for from the earth becouse a 2,000 year old fairy tale written by man claims we did. Ever major scientific discipline and major supports evolution and its a long proven fact.

"First of all, it is life."

This means nothing at all. Its not even really alive. Its a clump of cells.
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:iconmclandis:
Mclandis Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
First of all, it is life.

It's life in the same way a paramecium is life. It is not, however, a person until birth. Interestingly enough, that's exactly what your own Bible says as well.

Second of all, we didn't evolve.

Let's see here, every single major scientific discipline supports the idea, not to mention nothing in biology makes sense without the Theory of Evolution. The alternative is either special creation by a deity, which has absolutely no evidence to back it up whatsoever and is completely untestable, or we were genetically engineered by aliens, which ironically is more plausible than creation ex nihilo by a deity.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
1. A fetus is a life. Sure. So are the millions of animals that we raise for slaughter every year. 

2. Are you denying the scientific fact known as the theory of evolution?
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, I am denying the scientific "fact". I just don't see how it's possible.
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:iconclockworkknight:
ClockworkKnight Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2013
And yet a magic man in the clouds and magic man in red tights is real? There is no proof either exists any where yet there is plenty of proof for evolution
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
Do not use quotations. It is fact whether you choose to believe it or not. You do not see how it is possible yet you believe the nonsense from the bible? Much of which has been proven impossible?
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:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist
"Think of it as if it were you being aborted."

Had we had been aborted, we wouldn't be able have a position in this debate. This argument's an emotional one that doesn't really hold any water. <_<
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:iconestabano:
EstaBano Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013
"If you don't want the child, don't engage in intercourse."

Yeah! Damn rape victims. All going about and engaging in intercourse against their own will.
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That wasn't an example for that instance. There, I was talking about irresponsible people that are my age, like 14, or somewhere around that. For rape, that's something that can't be stopped. If somebody tries to rape you, you try to defend yourself. Kick the man or woman who wants to do such a thing. All he/she wants is power, and he/she sure as heck won't get it from me.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
And if you should fail to defend yourself, like 100% of rape victims, what then?
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm not going to go into a lecture about this. Just don't abort the child, and give it up for an adoption.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
So you are recanting what you said or simply failing to defend your previous statement?

Why? Why should the mother suffer?
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:iconmclandis:
Mclandis Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
lol, she baw-blocked me for pointing out where she's wrong.
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:iconestabano:
EstaBano Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013
"If somebody tries to rape you, you try to defend yourself."

And if that person should fail to defend themselves?
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:icontheartofcbyoung:
TheArtOfCBYoung Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Just defend yourself. Wow, I am sure that no rape victim ever thought of that one before. If people would just do that, rape would never happen! Problem solved!

</sarcasm>
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, if it does get to that, there's noting you can do. Except pray that nothing worse happens. Just don't kill the child. Who knows, maybe it'll get miscarried, anyway, so you don't have to kill it. The last part was harsh, but I'm just trying to explain.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
You think the last part is harsh? Wait until you realize what you actually mean. A woman who has been raped, in your opinion, despite all of that horrible trauma that has happened to her, she now must go through nine months of pregnancy that will place a heavy social, physical, emotional, and financial burden on her and then she must experience the most physically painful thing she will likely deal with not to mention the emotional, social, and financial repercussions, all to either raise a child that is a walking reminder of the worst day of her life or to give the child away and have that experience be all for nothing.

People have been tortured and experienced less shit than that. 
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I meant how I worded it. -_-
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
Again, your wording is fine. It's where it should be if not superior to those in your age. I take issue with the content.
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:iconestabano:
EstaBano Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013
"Just don't kill the child."

So a person has sex forced upon them against their will. Now let's have them give birth to the child against their will.
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:icontoastedghosts:
ToastedGhosts Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Just listen. A LIFE=A LIFE. Think about all the careless people who purposely KILL their child. I'm not talking about abortion here, I'm talking about abuse. A child is a good thing to have. It pays off. I've heard from MANY parents who didn't want a child, but they kept it. And they LOVED it. Being LOVED feels good. A CHILD needs love, not DEATH. Just see another person's point of view! Please just TRY.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013
No, a child is not a universally good thing to have. I've heard and seen many parents who do not like their child or regret having him/her. If anecdotal evidence is legitimate now then by all means let's play this game. But it's not. 
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:iconestabano:
EstaBano Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2013
I have tried.

I'm generally against abortion, but in the case of rape, if it is against the mother's will to have this child, then they should not have it.
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:iconjosephvlives:
JosephVLives Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Why on Earth would you have vaginal sex if you're not trying to create life.

I mean. Obviously there is no 100% clear cut method of not getting pregnant, but with all the options of getting birth control, contraceptives, and having easy access to each of these. Why not take all measures before you engage in sexual intercourse. I mean if you do get pregnant and you've done all this, well shit. You've convinced me. Go abort your fetus.

Why don't you think for a moment about the cost of an abortion. The emotional toll on yourself. Forget the fact that it is a pain in the ass to get anyway. Why even put yourself through all that trouble without using every step.

Rape, incest, medical reasons, mother's life?
Party hard bro.
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:icontanadia:
Tanadia Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I personally could never end a life that grows inside of me, but I feel that I have absolutely no right to tell others what they can or cannot do with their bodies. 
I realize that there are some special cases and sometimes abortion, a necessary evil is the answer. 

Like I said, I myself would never get one, but I cannot speak for others nor do I have the place to tell them what to do. 
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:iconphotomark:
photomark Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Well I am no anti abortion however I do not believe in it just for the sake of not having a child.

Pregnancy from rape or incest should be terminated as any pregnancy that has medical complications.

Now a lot of people say that an embryo and zygote are not children , they are however a life force .

Is there any one here who can tell me when an embryo gets its soul and becomes a child.
 At what stage of development does this happen ?
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:iconartisteamane:
ArtistEamane Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
An embryo has a soul from the very moment of conception.  
Birth control is deceptive, in that it kills the embryo, it doesn't prevent conception, contrary to what it claims to do.
I believe abortion is as morally wrong as killing, because you are killing a human being that has a soul and a future. Abortions cut off the ability for a human being to have a chance at life.  Personally, abortion is one of the most completely unfair realities of today's world.
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:iconphotomark:
photomark Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Yes I agree and I have always though of an embryo as a human life the second it is conceived.

I fail to see how any one could think other wise.

On the other hand I do not hold it against any one who terminates a pregnancy as a result of rape or incest and other severe medical complications.   
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2013
Scientifically, I believe it's the early-to-mid third trimester. Legally, it is when the child is born. However at no point does it gain a soul. 
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:iconkeyboardingchihuahua:
KeyboardingChihuahua Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2013  Student General Artist
Well, it's basically giving irresponsible women a quick and violent way out of their situation.
 Now, if there was a woman who was raped and got pregnant, or a woman who might die if she went through with her pregnancy, then I'd say ok go have an abortion.
   But in all other situations, it basically encouraging irresponsible sex because then "they can always go get an abortion" if they get pregnant. You're killing a living creature because you don't want to care for it and are too lazy to prevent it. If people could just learn to use condoms and birth control and such, there wouldn't be such controversy.
  It's just moral principle. I don't even know how women who had an abortion could go on with their lives. Knowing that they chose to kill a creature. They should face the consequences of their behavior and go through with their pregnancy. Then maybe when they see the child's face when they're born, it will change their mind and they'll decide to raise and nurture this beautiful child. Or if they still don't want to raise them, then send them to an adoption center. At least they will have a chance at life rather than dying without a chance.
   Let me sum it up this way: If you saw a murderer about to shoot an innocent person in the head and kill them, and you had the chance to intervene and stop the situation completely without any risk of harm to yourself, would you do it? So then why should a woman be allowed to kill their own child? Why? 
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2013
1. Women who have abortions are not irresponsible. This is a fallacy and the data does not support it. Having an abortion for many women is the responsible thing to do. If you cannot take care of a child, you have no business having one. 
2. Abortion is not violent.
3. It does not encourage irresponsible sex. Safe sex should still be taught. And the majority of women who have abortions used contraceptive. 
4. You claim it is a moral principle yet you say a woman should be forced to endure the hardships (mental, physical, and financial) of pregnancy and childbirth out of your own twisted delusions of moral grandeur. You WANT to think they are too lazy. You WANT to think they are irresponsible. You WANT to think they don't use contraceptives. Because you WANT to believe abortion is wrong. Your beliefs in regards to abortion are untrue. Also, we raise millions of creatures in captivity and slaughter them yearly. Much harsher than an abortion.
5. Women who have abortions are not murderers. The child inside them is going to effectively ruin their lives and the kicker is most women don't even realize this until years afterward. 
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:iconi-stamp:
i-stamp Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2013
Hundreds of thousands of women die in childbirth every year, and hundreds of thousands more critically injured, maimed, made emotionally and financially destitute. Not consenting to childbirth isn't lazy, and is never harmless or without risk. You can't make childbirth a punishment for having sex. It's like saying that, by signing a donor card, you should be able to be forced to give a kidney or marrow whenever someone needs one. 
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:iconkeyboardingchihuahua:
KeyboardingChihuahua Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2013  Student General Artist
  Going by US statistics, with 12.7 deaths per 100,000 pregnancies, the average death rate is 0.00013% of births. Very low. Nothing is without risks. A woman can die during an abortion too. Obviously in other places they may be higher, but so would abortion deaths. Like I said before, if the mother might seriously die in childbirth, then, fine, because it seems that a life would be lost either way. But for the majority of women who have a normal, problem free birth, it's just not right.
  Besides just wrong, abortions are a huge reason why today's youth and young adults are so awful. A woman can get out of her pregnancy with few or none consequences. So after that happens, no lesson learned. So why not some more unprotected sex? Because they didn't face any consequences from their previous mistake, they'll do it again, and then there will be yet another unintended pregnancy. And, outside of that, it teaches people that they can just weasel their way out of situations. Which is obviously not a good mindset.
  You are taking away a living creatures life because someone does not want to face the music and take responsibility for their actions. What happens when (because they did not learn a lesson) they accidentally kill someone while driving drunk or in a similar situation. Are they just not going to take any responsibility? Well, if they killed their own child and nobody gave a hoot about it, then why should someone give a hoot about an innocent pedestrian? Society is putting newborns lives below everyone else's. A newborn still has it's whole life ahead of it. But not anymore, since it's mother is missing her common sense.
  And that is a bad comparison. Becoming an organ donor is a choice that someone contemplates and makes and nothing to be ashamed of. An unwanted pregnancy happens as a result of no  planning and thoughts. If someone were to actually think ahead, then perhaps that pregnancy never would have happened. 
   
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2013
If a woman can die from an abortion, why make it illegal and thus far more dangerous? I know you said that an abortion due to rape is fine but how do you plan on monitoring that? The majority of rapes go unreported and the majority of the ones that do don't end well for the victim. So obviously a legal basis would be HIGHLY flawed. So that means any woman can just walk in, say she was raped, and get an abortion. Why restrict it then?

Jesus Christ. No, abortions are not why today's youth are so awful. Fun fact, only 18% people who receive abortions are teenagers. But you will have to provide proof to back up your claim that today's youth is awful because of abortion. You will provide evidence that abortions are ruining today's youth in your next post. Legitimate, scientific evidence. And why is a woman avoiding consequences a bad thing? You act like life is meant to be suffered through. No. You die someday and it's game over. In no way should you be forced to suffer through a meager and meaningless existence. As I have said before, the majority of women who receive abortions use contraceptives. Also, close to a supermajority of women who receive abortions already have one or more children to take care of. So they know the stress another child would put on their family. Also, while an abortion hardly teaches someone they can weasel out of a situation, that is a good thing to teach. There is always more than one option and NO ONE should be ostracized or punished for choosing the easier of two roads. Just because you aren't smart enough to take the easy road doesn't mean you get to act like those who do are inferior. 

And what is the problem with that? It's her life and she is looking out for herself. It's selfish, sure. You die young and you die alone if you aren't selfish every once in a while. It's not taking responsibility? You JUST said how these women are irresponsible and you want them raising children? You'd rather children grow up unhappy, poor, and feeding the endless cycle than a woman make a responsible decision that betters her life. Your fallacies are growing larger. Hitting someone with your car and terminating an undeveloped fetus are two completely different things. Does anyone care when you hit a possum with your car? I don't think so. No, society is not putting newborn's lives below everyone else's. They are putting FETUS' below everyone else, as they should be. Do you even know what a newborn is? The word itself is the definition yet you are using it wrong. It is NEWLY BORN. A fetus is not a newborn any more than a child is an adult. Also it is you who lacks common sense. You are using emotion with no logic behind it. You are saying that YOUR morals are the correct ones and that people should follow them. 
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:iconi-stamp:
i-stamp Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2013
How many deaths per skydiving jumps are there? How many deaths per abortion? And how many of those abortions are end term abortions done due to sudden complications in the pregnancy? It sounds a lot lower than it really is. That translates to a lot of people per year dying. And it's tragic enough when they actually have informed consent and maintain it throughout the pregnancy. But dying because of an unwanted pregnancy they are unable to terminate as a punishment? That's unjust and unethical.

Besides "just wrong" being a terrible argument, as I said before, you can't use childbirth as a punishment for people getting pregnant, no matter what they learn or don't learn. The fact of the matter is nobody can hold a person's body hostage and force them to be a non-consenting life support unit (which is why the drunk driving metaphor is a false equivalency.) 

And if they make and think about it and still decide to stop being an organ donor, they can. Because it's not a one-and-done consent, it must be constant. Same with pregnancy, and, in fact, any donor situation including pregnancy. The donors rights over their own body supersede the donee's rights to the donor's body.
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:iconburninatorx:
BurninatorX Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2013
Well personally, as an atheist, I can't give you an objective reason against it. I also am unsure of how I feel about making it a matter of government. However, personally I'm more of "I guess it should be allowed, but I wish it didn't happen". One reason I always toss around in my head is the idea "what if Einstein/Richard Dawkins/Benjamin Franklin was aborted?" I can't help but always think about the fact that you're erasing any potential successes that life had before it even had a chance.

On top of that, with the indescribably miniscule chances we have to hit the biological-lottery of being born at all, I see it as someone being named "Owner of Earth" then someone going "YOINK!". lol.
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:iconlegendofspyroxcynder:
who said Abortion is wrong? :no:
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:iconmemmil:
Memmil Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
It's better to think with your own brains instead of accepting everything as an absolute fact what scientists tell you. Maybe they have to call that stage of growing human a fetus, but what do you feel yourself? "Oh, they tell that creature inside my belly is not actually a human yet, so I still have time to get rid of it. How nice!"

Anyway if abortion is not done, it is GOING TO BE a human. When abortion is done you prevent it and thus don't allow someone to live.
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:iconeiikm:
EIIKM Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2013
No, it's not better to think with your own brain. What a mindnumbingly moronic thing to say. 
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
You need to be able to understand what a scientist tells you before you have the right to start deciding if it absolute fact or not. Something I suspect that, with the reductively simple strawman you produced, you do not have the capacity to do yet. Come back when you know a minimum about embryology.
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