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November 28, 2012
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:iconaazmatazz:
Aazmatazz Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I read about Noetic Science in the Lost Symbol and found it fascinating. The idea that the human mind can be used to influence the world around us is something that resonates with me, and it's the basis for my belief in Karma. You think positively and the world around you looks more positive...if that makes any sense to you.

Anyway I wanted to know other ppls insights into these Noetic Sciences. If you have never heard of them before have a read on the links below, it's interesting stuff.

[link]
[link]

P.S Sorry about the links, I still don't know how to hyperlink on here lol
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:iconstoneman123:
stoneman123 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, I've heard about it. It's quite poorly named, because it's not science at all. The human mind is just an organic computer, and like the inorganic one I'm using right now, it can't influence the surrounding world in any meaningful way simply by processing data. No, like any computer, it needs peripherals, be they the robots on an assembly line or the human body itself.

The reason this nonsense has any popularity at all simply illustrates humans' astonishing capacity for self delusion. It's nice to think you have psychic powers, and that you can make some kind of a difference by thought alone, rather than, say, ACTION. It's the very same reason people pray. It's a way to feel like your helping without actually doing anything.
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:iconbeauw:
BeauW Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
If you cultivate a mind that embraces opportunity while expanding as far as possible your definition of opportunity, you will find the world a better place. I don't think this is a controversial position. Look up 'psycho-neuro-immunology' for a more scientifically noetic version of that idea. But if you are interested in practicing- I recommend playing a lot of poker or solitaire, with real cards, for long stretches at a time.
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:iconmattyohh:
Mattyohh Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
Is this like when I think of Emma Stone and I get an erection?
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:iconaazmatazz:
Aazmatazz Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
haha thats exactly it
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:iconalzebetha:
alzebetha Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
of course can the human mind be used to influence things around us.

Right now I influence my fingers to affect my keyboard keys to call you a moron.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Wishing and willing are two different things.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The idea that the human mind can be used to influence the world around us is something that resonates with me

Of course the human mind can be used to influence the world around us. Human minds direct human actions. When I decided to answer you here, my mind directed my fingers to type these words. Hence, the world is influenced by the mind.

"Noetic theory" is not a theory in the scientific sense; it's just put that way so as to SOUND scientific. Real science is based on observation, not wishful thinking.
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:iconaazmatazz:
Aazmatazz Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sigh. It's strange how ppl can't comprehend something outside of their physical norm. This arguement of 'well my mind made me type this' is ridiculous, because that's not what we are getting at.

Yes ok your positive outlook on life can make you a better person, therefore you go out, make the world a better place blah blah.

But I'm just open to the idea of the mind ACTIVELY warping and twisting the world around us, however minute it may be.

I sort of wish I had retitled this 'Quantum Mind' tbh.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
As if "quantum" is any better. Used outside of a physics or chemistry context, it's almost always a sign of pseudoscience.

I comprehend lots of things outside the physical norm. It's sheer arrogance on your part to assume that disagreement means stupidity. All I ask is that you PROVE it. So far, no one has.

This is just the silly "you create your reality" nonsense in pseudoscientific wrapping.
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:iconaazmatazz:
Aazmatazz Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Woah my man, I never called you stupid. Thats the first thing.

Secondly Theory is by it's definition an intelligent guess based on what we know. Quantum Theory has, 'Theorized' the Higgs Boson's existence, I would imagine a scholar such as yourself will already know of the discovery of the God Particle so surely that is someway to this 'Proof' you are looking for.

No?

Ok well what about things like the Uncertainty Principle or quantum entanglement which is being used inside quantum computers.

I believe these things should open peoples minds and show that, we don't know everything, Physics as we know it could only be the tip of the iceberg. Everything we know about the way the universe works could be blown apart by some of the discoveries being made in this age, so yeah maybe it is "you create your reality", but I don't think it's silly and I think they have proved it may not be complete nonsense.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
"Can't comprehend" certainly does imply stupidity. That cutesy "sigh" doesn't help the impression.

Don't lecture someone on quantum physics who's actually studied quantum physics and can do the math. The Higgs boson wasn't conjured out of thin air like this "noetic science" bullshit was. It was predicted by the models that were devised to explain other observations. That's one way we validate theories: if they make predictions that we can later observe, then we know they're reasonably accurate models of how the world works. If they do not -- that is, if we observe something different instead, or if we repeatedly fail to observe what we'd expect under given conditions -- we start to suspect that something is wrong with the theory and look for ways to fix it.

The Higgs boson was predicted by the "standard model" that accounted for the existence of all other observed particles. That is, the standard model didn't JUST predict the Higgs boson; it was a more comprehensive description based on other observations which also predicted other particles that turned out to be real. If the Higgs boson never showed up at the energies the standard model told us it should exist, the standard model would have had to be scrapped.

So what exactly is your point in bringing that up?

So no. A "theory" is not merely an "intelligent guess". That's what we call a hypothesis. A theory, rather, is the closest we can get to truth in science.

And what about the Uncertainty Principle? Write it down and look at it. (It's an equation relating uncertainties in the observed position and momentum of a particle, not an English sentence.) What does it tell you about "noetic science"? Nothing at all.

Fact is there's absolutely no connection between anything you've talked about here and "noetic science" at all. Simply throwing out principles of quantum mechanics doesn't prove your point in the least.
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:iconsvataben:
Svataben Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Well said. (And of course, based on that, you'll only see ~iAaz ignore your points.)

But it did make e lol to see him claim that his brain is working. :lol:
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:iconaazmatazz:
Aazmatazz Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
...I'm amazed you took the time to write all that...you must really hate noetic science... did it rape you as a child?

This a forum on the Internet dude, I just enjoy chatting about this stuff. It gets the mind working and I thought as a writer you would have understood that.

You seem like a smart guy so why waste ur time speaking to an obvious idiot like me?
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
You want to get your mind working? Actually LEARN something about the terms you're casually tossing around. LEARN the math. It's challenging, but not impossible. (Even I managed it.) If you do that, you'll see how silly it sounds to try and connect it to this new-age bullshit.

You didn't actually look up the Uncertainty Principle, did you? The Wikipedia article on it has a good, if rather technical, discussion.

That wasn't a long post. I only summarized the information I gave you. There's nothing too complex in there.
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
i think that the people going about this in a scientific manner (Rupert Sheldrake comes to mind) are doing valid work. all that wishy-washy new-agey stuff is mostly garbage, though.
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:iconstripedpower:
StripedPower Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012   Digital Artist
I've already come across noetic in their page. I find it interesting, and I support it... but I already had knowledge about most (if not all) of the things they're studying.
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:iconkittythenekoalien:
KittyTheNekoAlien Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think it's more psychology and how the human mind works. Everything seems more positive to an optimistic person because they believe it's that way, and same for a pessimist. A pessimist simply notices the bad things a lot more, the optimist notices more of the good things, no matter how small, and take's stock for them.
It's also in our nature to find meaning in everything we see, so we may try to construct the positive or negative events in life as a kind of lesson, a test, a discovery, when some may not see anything in the event at all.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
My mind can influence my hand, which can influence the world. Usually by moving things around in it.
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:iconzcochrane:
ZCochrane Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Student Photographer
As a general rule: If it's in a Dan Brown book, and portrayed as actual (but little known) fact, it is usually wrong. My experience with that was Digital Fortress, which gets cryptography so horribly wrong it's funny again, but from what I hear from experts on other fields, this applies to all his books.

I don't know anything about "noetic" stuff. But based on the links, I think it is at best a religion. There's nothing scientific about it.
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:iconaazmatazz:
Aazmatazz Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah i worried a little bit about saying it was from a Dan Brown book because, well a lot of it is bullocks. I do actually agree with you on Digital Fortress, but not everything in it about crypto is totally wrong. If you like cryptography i highly recommend Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson which is by far a better story and the crypto information is far more accurate.

In regards to Noetic Science I just find it interesting, if I'm honest. The idea your mind is more than just 'inside your head' is something which I like the idea of.

If you take something like the The Uncertainty Principle of Light Particles for example. The Particles only act strangely when not being interfered with, as soon as they are put under scrutiny and you try to take a closer look, they obey the common laws of physics (In a nutshell lol)

With these unknowns in the world and the awesome discoveries being made in the quantum physics changing the way we think about the universe. Is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe our mind is a lot more powerful than we realize?
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Professional General Artist
I wouldn't call it a religion, more a pseudo-science linked with New Age mind-body stuff.
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:iconzcochrane:
ZCochrane Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Student Photographer
You're right, that does fit better.
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