The Question on Abortion
On the news tonight, there was a report about an Irish woman who died during a miscarriage after her doctors refused to abort her pregnancy.
For more information on it, read here
The question about abortion isn't one in black & white; there are many shades of grey in the middle. Although there are some good arguments against abortion, there are also many good arguments for it.
Most of the arguments against it seem to focus on the welfare of the foetus. They say that every child, born or not, is a gift and a blessing, and should be respected. While I respect that, technically, a foetus is alive, I believe the needs of the mother should also be taken into consideration.
Think about it; the woman will have to look after the kid for at least eighteen years, sometimes without any support from family and/or partners.
However, that's just the social aspect. What about when they go wrong? For example, miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies (when the egg is fertilised outside the womb). These could potentially kill the woman...and if the woman dies, the foetus is going to die as well.
So, now that I've said my main points, what are your opinions on the matter? Be prepared to back up your ideas, because I have a tendency to debate.
For more information on it, read here
The question about abortion isn't one in black & white; there are many shades of grey in the middle. Although there are some good arguments against abortion, there are also many good arguments for it.
Most of the arguments against it seem to focus on the welfare of the foetus. They say that every child, born or not, is a gift and a blessing, and should be respected. While I respect that, technically, a foetus is alive, I believe the needs of the mother should also be taken into consideration.
Think about it; the woman will have to look after the kid for at least eighteen years, sometimes without any support from family and/or partners.
However, that's just the social aspect. What about when they go wrong? For example, miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies (when the egg is fertilised outside the womb). These could potentially kill the woman...and if the woman dies, the foetus is going to die as well.
So, now that I've said my main points, what are your opinions on the matter? Be prepared to back up your ideas, because I have a tendency to debate.
Comments389
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by OP
I think that if a women wants an abortion, she has every right to get an abortion. Of course she should be able to accept the shame that comes with it from some people in society.
Indeed
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If she'd had the abortion and wasn't forced to carry a dying/dead fetus, it would have increased her chances of NOT dying.
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But by not removing the dying fetus they all but ensured she'd died. If they had removed it, she would have had a greater chance of survival. You said that if she'd had the abortion it would have increased her chance of dying, which is entirely untrue.
What do mean, serves no practical purpose? Please explain.
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Why do you think it serves no practical purpose? That was more of what I was getting at.
A fetus until born is basically a parasite (and even after, feeding off the parents money to live for years). I support it, in it's entirety.
I agree with you
You do know its bullshit, its all i have been listening to for a week and a half.
The pro abortionists are taking advantage of this guys misfOrtune to further their agenda and the are trying to hurry legislation through.
I knew within about 30 seconds that this guy had been coached into saying what he did,
The pro abortionists are taking advantage of this guys misfOrtune to further their agenda and the are trying to hurry legislation through.
I knew within about 30 seconds that this guy had been coached into saying what he did,
The story was just an example, it's not the basis of my debate. It was merely what got me interested in the issue to begin with.
What brings on this opinion of yours?
What brings on this opinion of yours?
OK ok, its just the the story has been dominating the news over here, and theres big hysteria.
Well about a week and a half ago a government report was due to come out about abortion so a load of pro abortion protesters planned to have a rally outside government buildings, on the eve of the publishing of the report the story"woman dies that could have survived if she had and abortion,husband told by a doctor when he requested a termination that his wife couldnt have an abortion and that this was a catholic country" came out.
The weird thing was that his wife died two weeks before the report was due to come out, the timing was just a bit too convenient.
The second thing is there is no way a doctor would have said that, it was definitely a jab at irelands catholic beliefs, something pro abortionists in ireland hate.
The third thing is that a doctor will terminate the child if the mothers life is in danger [link] ,so the claim made that the abortion was refused is a direct lie. Especially as the doctors knew the baby was going to die anyway.
The way the story was spun was that the mother life would have been saved if she had the abortion but the abortion was refused because of catholic ethos. Indian press went to town and were totally outraged and ran with headlines saying that the irish had killed and indian pregnant woman because of our (stupid) catholic beliefs.
They forgot to mention that she was the first maternal death in the area for 15 years and that 20000 women a year die in india from botched abortions.
Of further convenience was the 1000 pro-abortion protesters gathering outside government buildings all offering mockeeah sympathy and shedding mockeeah tears (like they really care).
So far so good, as it turns out the protesters started asking for a public inquiry , irish taxpayers have been burned by public inquiries so the government agreed to a private inquiry, they shipped in a pro-abortion consultant from london to take control of the inquiry but the husband objected to the two doctors who were helping him so the government replaced them,
On top of that the medical board have started their own inquiry but this is still not good enough for the "husband" and "he" has said that "he" will bring the case to the european court of human rights.
As for the hospital records, despite the records recording every time she requested an extra blanket or asked for a cup of tea there is no record of her husband asking for a termination, also many people(midwives etc) have said that a termination would not have saved her life anyway.
The pro abortionists are looking for emergency legislation despite legislation already being there, they are hoping for a knee jerk from the government, once further legislation goes through they will be able to use the courts to further push the boundries and eventually get abortion on demand, despite the irish electorite voting against abortion twice in two referendums
Also. in a following interview the husband changed to wording of what he said, he said that the doctor told him"this is a catholic country,we are not allowed to perform abortions" ,somewhat less inflammatory.
All that has to happen now is for the reports to come out,
Its bad enough that this woman died but now her husband is being used to further a politacal agenda.
Well about a week and a half ago a government report was due to come out about abortion so a load of pro abortion protesters planned to have a rally outside government buildings, on the eve of the publishing of the report the story"woman dies that could have survived if she had and abortion,husband told by a doctor when he requested a termination that his wife couldnt have an abortion and that this was a catholic country" came out.
The weird thing was that his wife died two weeks before the report was due to come out, the timing was just a bit too convenient.
The second thing is there is no way a doctor would have said that, it was definitely a jab at irelands catholic beliefs, something pro abortionists in ireland hate.
The third thing is that a doctor will terminate the child if the mothers life is in danger [link] ,so the claim made that the abortion was refused is a direct lie. Especially as the doctors knew the baby was going to die anyway.
The way the story was spun was that the mother life would have been saved if she had the abortion but the abortion was refused because of catholic ethos. Indian press went to town and were totally outraged and ran with headlines saying that the irish had killed and indian pregnant woman because of our (stupid) catholic beliefs.
They forgot to mention that she was the first maternal death in the area for 15 years and that 20000 women a year die in india from botched abortions.
Of further convenience was the 1000 pro-abortion protesters gathering outside government buildings all offering mockeeah sympathy and shedding mockeeah tears (like they really care).
So far so good, as it turns out the protesters started asking for a public inquiry , irish taxpayers have been burned by public inquiries so the government agreed to a private inquiry, they shipped in a pro-abortion consultant from london to take control of the inquiry but the husband objected to the two doctors who were helping him so the government replaced them,
On top of that the medical board have started their own inquiry but this is still not good enough for the "husband" and "he" has said that "he" will bring the case to the european court of human rights.
As for the hospital records, despite the records recording every time she requested an extra blanket or asked for a cup of tea there is no record of her husband asking for a termination, also many people(midwives etc) have said that a termination would not have saved her life anyway.
The pro abortionists are looking for emergency legislation despite legislation already being there, they are hoping for a knee jerk from the government, once further legislation goes through they will be able to use the courts to further push the boundries and eventually get abortion on demand, despite the irish electorite voting against abortion twice in two referendums
Also. in a following interview the husband changed to wording of what he said, he said that the doctor told him"this is a catholic country,we are not allowed to perform abortions" ,somewhat less inflammatory.
All that has to happen now is for the reports to come out,
Its bad enough that this woman died but now her husband is being used to further a politacal agenda.
Women have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. There are women who subjegate their bodies to abuse and sometimes even rape in the prostituation business and yet that is going on every day. As a woman, it is ridiculous for someone to say you have to carry a baby in your womb, you have to go through all that psychological and physical stress, you have to deliver a child into this world that you have no desire of having. First of all, what kind of a life would that be for the mother? Especially if her child ends up being disabled, she now has all these responsibilities (especially if its a young mother of 19 years) who want to finish school, wants to pursue a career and cannot because she was forced into having a baby. Furthermore, what kind of alife would that be for the child, to be unwanted, to make his mother upset for his sheer existence, its ridiculous. Women have a RIGHT to choose what they want to do with their bodies, and if they decide that they do not want a child they should under NO circumstance be forced into having one. I personally, am not pro-abortion but more pro-choice. And this is the real debate, wheather the woman can choose can have a child, not be forced into having one. Finally, if the mother was raped or if she accidently got pregnant (the birth control didn't work, or something just happened) then why should she have that daily reminder of the sick son-of-a-bastard in the form of a child. She shouldn't if she wants to. Therefore, yes like you pointed out there are a few grey areas but its really no arguement. Women have the right to choose what they want to do witht heir bodies and if they are not comfortable and not in a stable financial situation they have 100% right to have an abortion.
I'm like you, pro-choice. Then again, I have different reasons for my views, mostly around what my definition of a human is.
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I don't really see a foetus as a human being until it's developed a brain, so the "innocent life" argument doesn't work with me. Just saying
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Okay, by a brain I mean a functioning cranial organ. People with handicaps still have a brain, even if they can't think or speak for themselves as well as those with fully functioning brains can. A foetus is nothing more than a compilation of zygotic cells until it develops brain cells.
I know you were talking about a literal brain. Missing anatomy does not change the fact that it is a unique human being.
All I want to say is get the boys snipped
and get the girls spayed before population grows too much while there be less accidental pregnancies.
if you hate what mean oh well sorry to get you angered. I think I have to be 21 to get them either tied or cut idk I'd sure want it now honestly I don't need kids for safety and good reasons
and get the girls spayed before population grows too much while there be less accidental pregnancies.
if you hate what mean oh well sorry to get you angered. I think I have to be 21 to get them either tied or cut idk I'd sure want it now honestly I don't need kids for safety and good reasons
I agree with that concept 
At least it'll stem population growth
At least it'll stem population growth