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November 15, 2012
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The Question on Abortion

:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
On the news tonight, there was a report about an Irish woman who died during a miscarriage after her doctors refused to abort her pregnancy.
For more information on it, read here

The question about abortion isn't one in black & white; there are many shades of grey in the middle. Although there are some good arguments against abortion, there are also many good arguments for it.

Most of the arguments against it seem to focus on the welfare of the foetus. They say that every child, born or not, is a gift and a blessing, and should be respected. While I respect that, technically, a foetus is alive, I believe the needs of the mother should also be taken into consideration.

Think about it; the woman will have to look after the kid for at least eighteen years, sometimes without any support from family and/or partners.

However, that's just the social aspect. What about when they go wrong? For example, miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies (when the egg is fertilised outside the womb). These could potentially kill the woman...and if the woman dies, the foetus is going to die as well.

So, now that I've said my main points, what are your opinions on the matter? Be prepared to back up your ideas, because I have a tendency to debate.
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Devious Comments

:iconkovowolf:
KovoWolf Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional General Artist
:lock: by OP
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I think that if a women wants an abortion, she has every right to get an abortion. Of course she should be able to accept the shame that comes with it from some people in society.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Indeed
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:iconstaple-salad:
staple-salad Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
If she'd had the abortion and wasn't forced to carry a dying/dead fetus, it would have increased her chances of NOT dying.
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:iconstaple-salad:
staple-salad Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
But by not removing the dying fetus they all but ensured she'd died. If they had removed it, she would have had a greater chance of survival. You said that if she'd had the abortion it would have increased her chance of dying, which is entirely untrue.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
What do mean, serves no practical purpose? Please explain.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Why do you think it serves no practical purpose? That was more of what I was getting at.
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:iconquickekid:
quickekid Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
A fetus until born is basically a parasite (and even after, feeding off the parents money to live for years). I support it, in it's entirety.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with you
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
You do know its bullshit, its all i have been listening to for a week and a half.

The pro abortionists are taking advantage of this guys misfOrtune to further their agenda and the are trying to hurry legislation through.

I knew within about 30 seconds that this guy had been coached into saying what he did,
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
The story was just an example, it's not the basis of my debate. It was merely what got me interested in the issue to begin with.

What brings on this opinion of yours?
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
OK ok, its just the the story has been dominating the news over here, and theres big hysteria.

Well about a week and a half ago a government report was due to come out about abortion so a load of pro abortion protesters planned to have a rally outside government buildings, on the eve of the publishing of the report the story"woman dies that could have survived if she had and abortion,husband told by a doctor when he requested a termination that his wife couldnt have an abortion and that this was a catholic country" came out.

The weird thing was that his wife died two weeks before the report was due to come out, the timing was just a bit too convenient.
The second thing is there is no way a doctor would have said that, it was definitely a jab at irelands catholic beliefs, something pro abortionists in ireland hate.
The third thing is that a doctor will terminate the child if the mothers life is in danger [link] ,so the claim made that the abortion was refused is a direct lie. Especially as the doctors knew the baby was going to die anyway.
The way the story was spun was that the mother life would have been saved if she had the abortion but the abortion was refused because of catholic ethos. Indian press went to town and were totally outraged and ran with headlines saying that the irish had killed and indian pregnant woman because of our (stupid) catholic beliefs.
They forgot to mention that she was the first maternal death in the area for 15 years and that 20000 women a year die in india from botched abortions.

Of further convenience was the 1000 pro-abortion protesters gathering outside government buildings all offering mockeeah sympathy and shedding mockeeah tears (like they really care).

So far so good, as it turns out the protesters started asking for a public inquiry , irish taxpayers have been burned by public inquiries so the government agreed to a private inquiry, they shipped in a pro-abortion consultant from london to take control of the inquiry but the husband objected to the two doctors who were helping him so the government replaced them,
On top of that the medical board have started their own inquiry but this is still not good enough for the "husband" and "he" has said that "he" will bring the case to the european court of human rights.

As for the hospital records, despite the records recording every time she requested an extra blanket or asked for a cup of tea there is no record of her husband asking for a termination, also many people(midwives etc) have said that a termination would not have saved her life anyway.

The pro abortionists are looking for emergency legislation despite legislation already being there, they are hoping for a knee jerk from the government, once further legislation goes through they will be able to use the courts to further push the boundries and eventually get abortion on demand, despite the irish electorite voting against abortion twice in two referendums

Also. in a following interview the husband changed to wording of what he said, he said that the doctor told him"this is a catholic country,we are not allowed to perform abortions" ,somewhat less inflammatory.

All that has to happen now is for the reports to come out,
Its bad enough that this woman died but now her husband is being used to further a politacal agenda.
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:iconkahlanamnell123:
KahlanAmnell123 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
Women have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. There are women who subjegate their bodies to abuse and sometimes even rape in the prostituation business and yet that is going on every day. As a woman, it is ridiculous for someone to say you have to carry a baby in your womb, you have to go through all that psychological and physical stress, you have to deliver a child into this world that you have no desire of having. First of all, what kind of a life would that be for the mother? Especially if her child ends up being disabled, she now has all these responsibilities (especially if its a young mother of 19 years) who want to finish school, wants to pursue a career and cannot because she was forced into having a baby. Furthermore, what kind of alife would that be for the child, to be unwanted, to make his mother upset for his sheer existence, its ridiculous. Women have a RIGHT to choose what they want to do with their bodies, and if they decide that they do not want a child they should under NO circumstance be forced into having one. I personally, am not pro-abortion but more pro-choice. And this is the real debate, wheather the woman can choose can have a child, not be forced into having one. Finally, if the mother was raped or if she accidently got pregnant (the birth control didn't work, or something just happened) then why should she have that daily reminder of the sick son-of-a-bastard in the form of a child. She shouldn't if she wants to. Therefore, yes like you pointed out there are a few grey areas but its really no arguement. Women have the right to choose what they want to do witht heir bodies and if they are not comfortable and not in a stable financial situation they have 100% right to have an abortion.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm like you, pro-choice. Then again, I have different reasons for my views, mostly around what my definition of a human is.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't really see a foetus as a human being until it's developed a brain, so the "innocent life" argument doesn't work with me. Just saying
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay, by a brain I mean a functioning cranial organ. People with handicaps still have a brain, even if they can't think or speak for themselves as well as those with fully functioning brains can. A foetus is nothing more than a compilation of zygotic cells until it develops brain cells.
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:iconfalconstrife86:
falconstrife86 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
I know you were talking about a literal brain. Missing anatomy does not change the fact that it is a unique human being.
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:iconlady-alternate:
Lady-ALTernate Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
All I want to say is get the boys snipped
and get the girls spayed before population grows too much while there be less accidental pregnancies.

if you hate what mean oh well sorry to get you angered. I think I have to be 21 to get them either tied or cut idk I'd sure want it now honestly I don't need kids for safety and good reasons
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with that concept :lol:
At least it'll stem population growth
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:iconlady-alternate:
Lady-ALTernate Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
thanks for aggreeing on that you know I just hate to see another vision of me you know but atm I got the depo :hmm:
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:iconhotelchelseanights:
HotelChelseaNights Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
If the NRLC is looking for more votes to support their cause perhaps they should set up polling stations outside the womb. Kid's don't even have the right to make choices on the things that effect their well-being until the age of 18 in most states anyway. It's a woman's choice and her god damn right, just please discuss it with a logical responsible individual first. It is not simply birth control because some couldn't be bothered.
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:iconthespiderfrommars:
TheSpiderFromMars Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
It's not okay to force a woman to go through with a pregnancy if she doesn't want to. Enough said.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Short and to the point. I like that
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
You wanna know how I view abortion?
Abortion opinions are like nipples. Everybody has them but it just so happens a females nipples have a more functional purpose.
As well as our rights on abortion because it's OUR body.
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:iconmagicmoonbird:
MagicMoonBird Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I agree with you :) .....I dont get why people say its not your body....O.o besides, when people have tapeworms, they also remove those right?...and that is a living being as well :XD:
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Hehe, exactly.:)
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Its your body? its not your body,

if you killed yourself,then it would be your body, but abortion is killing someone else.
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Nope.
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Technically it's not killing, it's not alive. and it IS Mine because it's still apart of me we're attached it is in me
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Look to me that's not how I see it. Anything with a functioning brain wave is not alive.
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
It's not for no reason.
We both suffer from ignorance, it's human.
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(1 Reply)
:iconvictorywept:
VictoryWept Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Student Digital Artist
:clap:
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
:blush:
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:iconvictorywept:
VictoryWept Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student Digital Artist
:hug:
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:lmao:
That made me giggle, but I get what you're saying and accept it
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:iconelyssea:
Elyssea Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
:blush:
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:iconruelariat:
ruelariat Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Well, I'm for abortion pretty much because if the woman wants it then she should be allowed to have it. She should be able to make that own decision for herself--partly because she has the right to.

Now, as for those people who say, "But since the fetus is alive doesn't it have rights, too?" Well, in my mind, not really. The fetus is part of the mother until birth and therefore hasn't earned any rights of it's own--technically born children who have lived for several years don't have many rights of their own. The mother gets to decides the rights for herself and the child, and if she believes there is a reason for her to have an abortion then she should have the right to do it.

My decision may be influenced by the fact that I don't have what most people call morals. I understand morals and I follow them for the most because everyone in this world pretty much follows them, but it's not my personal lifestyle. So in my mind, the arguement that the fetus is a living person and killing living people is bad doesn't particular work. The fetus doesn't have a comprehending mind of it's own in the first stages of pregnancy so it's definitely okay in my opinion to have an abortion then. When the fetus started developing thoughts and begins to dream is when much of the controversy occurs. People need to define what a person is before they can actually solve this arguement.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
To me, a person has a brain and can think. Therefore, I don't really consider a foetus a person, simply because it has no brain and therefore no emotions (meaning also that it cannot feel pain).
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:iconruelariat:
ruelariat Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012
Well, the fetus does develop a brain in the later stages of pregnancy and it does start to dream. I'm not for sure on the emotion thing, though, because I'm not really an expert (I know just what I remember from school). Doesn't really matter either way to me. Abortion should be allowed.
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:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It doesn't develop a brain until after the 20th week or so (don't remember exactly when). Without a brain, it can't feel any pain or emotion.
Bottom line; I agree
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:iconkahlanamnell123:
KahlanAmnell123 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
Yes I think that it also depends on the months. Its irresponsible if its in the 9th month and she suddenly decideds (unless it has a risk to her life) but otherwise, Its up to 3 months I'm pretty sure which is legal.
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