Religion Wavering Help...?


AzeeraTheNinja's avatar
So, I've seen a post on this forum about religious-themed help, so I'm hoping I'm doing this right... (move as you wish CV! :nod: )

I've got a situation and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it out of anger or if I mean it...

There were a few things that were brought up to me today by my dad. One of them being "Respect Thy Mother and Thy Father" as one of the 10 commandments and being super important. My dad translates this as "do what I tell you to do because you're not 18 yet so that means you're still under my control. And even when you turn 18 I'm still your father and I'm always right blah blah. I'll always be above you and I'm always right even though you're right blah blah."

Second point was that my dad translates the Adam and Eve thing meaning that men are higher than women. Adam was made first and from God while Eve was made from Adam and second. And she was also the one that tempted Adam with the forbidden fruit. He translates this as the reason why the men should be the leaders of a household even if they do a horrible job.

Now, being a child of a Christian, and not only that, but a daughter of a Christian, I'm hoping you guys see my issue with this? (being a woman and having a parent that's kinda crazy with this stuff?)

I'm usually the type of person that accepts a lot of things. If you believe in Buddha, if you believe in God, if you believe that homosexuality is okay/not okay, or if you like pro-choice/pro-life, I really do not care. Or, at least, I'm not going to force my own opinions on you. I won't make you get an abortion if you don't want one, yeah?

I accept people and I think everyone's equal and they have equal say in their lives. For example, I will listen to my children. I won't say "No, I'm right, and you have to accept that because you have to respect me no matter what I do." and then slap them in the face with words and they have to deal with it without saying anything back to me.

So here's my problem.

I've been a Christian up until now, and I'm not sure if I'm giving up God because I'm mad at my dad or because I'm actually uncomfortable with the religion itself now.

I hope this makes sense, anything you guys might suggest to help me decide? Feel free to ask me questions if you need more info to help.
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RosleinRot's avatar
I am not a Christian. I don't come from a religious family, but I have friends that have parents like your dad. At some point, they all decided what was right for them--and only them. This is your life. Your life, not theirs--you have to live with what you believe and what is in your heart. At some point your father will be gone. If you've only been believing to please him...what happens when he's gone? Imagine the life and experiences you could never have.

I hope I've helped in some way. I'm sorry this is reviving an old thread but I wanted to help. I hope I did. :)
CalionCreates's avatar
Definitely do some research, like reading the Bible, by yourself and make up your own interpretations on the religion. You don't have to follow in your families footsteps. Also, since you're questioning your faith, I'd suggested praying. Even if you're like "Hey, God. I have no idea if you exist or not...but can you help me out? I'm starting to question if you exist, and if you do, I'm afraid of turning away from you...so, a little help please?" Or whatever. ^^;
MatthewMatters's avatar
Simple. Read the bible and make up your own mind.
Dragonflae's avatar
Study the bible as much as you possibly can. Did you know it also supports rape, mass murder and infanticide? Slavery, even.

Also, if your dad throws on the Adam and Eve thing, remind him that Lilith, Adam's first wife, was made from the same dirt Adam was made from, and took off when he tried to dominate her in bed.

So not all women are submissive. Only the ones decent from Eve :D
MosstarKitteh's avatar
The Bible supports rape and murder as much as spoons make people fat. It's a historical account of the culture thousands of years ago.
Dragonflae's avatar
So Yahweh commanding his men to take virgins as war prizes, to kill homosexuals, pagans and rape victims and to tear open pregnant women's bellies and smash their unborn babes against rocks counts for nothing?

Also, that means talking snakes existed at some point.
MosstarKitteh's avatar
1.) Could you please cite the verses where these were stated?
2.) Pagans and Christians are equally guilty of killing each other.
3.) Why are you taking the Old Testament so seriously and literally? Science has discredited most of the stories in it, so obviously it is not a factual work; it is simply a collection of stories from an ancient culture. Many other cultures have gory, violent accounts of the ancient times. But do you know what? No one cares. It's like reading a history textbook or a classic piece of literature. The readers think, "Ancient people were barbaric! I"m glad I didn't live back then." Then, they go back to watching Honey Boo Boo or playing Angry Birds.

In short: It really isn't hurting the people of today, so it doesn't amount to much. IF any of what you said was actually stated in the Old Testament, it really has no effect on the people of today. Many people today are atheists or they are modern Christians who focus more on the New Testament anyway, which is nearly the complete opposite of the Old Testament (save for Revelations.)
Dragonflae's avatar
1) Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Leviticus 20:13, Jeremiah 9:12-15, Deuteronomy 22:23-24, Isaiah 13:15-18. Those aren't even the only verses where the encouragement of these things is listed :stare:
2) Name one other religion that's not Judeo-Christian that went out of its way to scour the globe to find other religions and slaughter them. You'll find none. Pagans have been killing each other for thousands of years, true; but you will NOT find such a great number dead in the name of a Pagan god.
3) I'm taking it seriously and literally because people still worship it, regardless of what it really is.

It's not hurting people today?

[link]

Keep that link in mind with the fact that as we speak, in Africa, there are witch hunts going on. I found one story of a boy whose father threw acid at him in an attempt to 'cure' him.

[link]

Abortion clinic bombing.

[link]

Gay teen beaten to death by an anti-gay mob.

Now you read those links, do some research and see if you can come back here, look me square in the eye and tell me that the old Testament doesn't effect us today.

I won't even start on politics.
MosstarKitteh's avatar
Before I continue with a reply, I would like bring up the concept of culture vs. religion. Many people seem to interchange the two, which is understandable. Culture is unique to a people in a specific part of the world, while religion is international. Religion also tends to be interpreted differently by different cultures. Take Muslims, for instance. Muslims in America or even India are very different from the ones in the Middle East. This is something that needs to be considered when examining events with religious connections.

I did some reading up on these African witch hunts you mentioned and they are indeed extremely barbaric. However, they are mainly focused in countries where magic is still a belief in the culture. The existence of magic is denied by Judeo-Christian denominations in general, so any Christian connections are slim at most. Also, it is said that "Witch-hunts in Africa are often led by relatives seeking the property of the accused victim." [link]



1.) Deuteronomy 20:10-14: With a little research, one could find that this was typical in battles of the day. Woman and children were considered property to the culture of the ancient times, whether they worshiped God or the pagan gods.
-Leviticus 20:13: This is not a common practice of Christianity today (although many are anti-gay, which is a problem I have with the Christian faith.) Once again, I bring up the cultural component: Ugandan religious leaders were attempting to pass a "Kill the Gays" bill, but the Vatican shot it down and even lobbied against it.
-Jeremiah 9:12-15: I don't understand what this is supposed to be promoting. God's punishing the Israelites for disobeying him, something that seems to happen a lot in the Old Testament.
-Deuteronomy 22:23-24: People are stoned to death for an affair. This is a very outlandish punishment, but I have yet to see it practiced in modern culture today.
-Isaiah 13:15-18: If you examine the verses surround this passage, it's another passage in which God is punishing sinners for disobedience, not encouraging the Israelites to do such actions.

2.) Radical Islamists have a tendency to do this. Here's a list Wikipedia provided of some of their recent attacks: [link]
Once again, the culture vs. religion spiel pops up here. Most radical Muslims come from the Middle East. The Muslims I have known here in a modern culture have been some of the nicest and smartest people that I have ever met. This can be applied to Christianity as well. Also, the only instances of Christians "scouring the globe to find other religions and slaughtering them" occurred with the Crusades between the 11th and 13th centuries.

3) There will always be someone out there who believes in something radically different; that's just how humans are. Whether it's an entire culture or a few people, you aren't going to force them to change their ways. However, in modern cultures such as Canada, England, and America, practicing radical ideas stated in the Old Testament are heavily frowned upon and illegal.

Now, as for the links...
I believe I covered the first link in my paragraph regarding witch hunts, since the people mentioned in the article were originally from Democratic Republic of the Congo in Africa.

As for the second link, I was not aware of the Abortion Clinic bombing and would like to thank you for bringing that to my attention. However, I would like to remind you that the authorities intervened due to the fact that this is obviously not acceptable in our culture, as well as the fact that this is not the norm at all.

As for the third link, while it is a tragic story, there are no visible religious ties reported in the article.

To me, it seems like you have something against Christians in general. Like every religion, Christianity has some bad eggs. Since it is the largest religion, it is bound to have more bad eggs than a smaller religion. The reasons for this are usually due to their less scientific culture. In modern cultures, the Old Testament isn't upheld as highly as the New Testament and is widely believed to have more significance as a historical document than as a work of fiction. The few groups that do promote more of the Old Testament's radical values -- such as Westboro Baptist Church -- are hated even by other Christians. Heck, almost all of the Christians I've met either in real life or on the internet are all pro-gay, bi, lesbian, transgender, etc.

If you want a more Catholic view -- which I am a bit more familiar with -- the Old Testament is taught to be purely symbolic, and the passages such as Leviticus are a summary of the laws from the ancient days, and they were "abolished" when Jesus came and fulfilled the New Testament.

Now that I have looked into the matters that you have presented, I can look into your eyes and say that yes, it really isn't affecting us. We live in a more modern culture, since we are both debating this on a non-regulated or censored internet with a computer and/or laptop. If you want to take your issue up with a culture in which the Old Testament and magic appears to be more prominent, perhaps you could present your evidence to them instead.

Dragonflae's avatar
Honey, I think you're the one getting 'culture' and 'religion' mixed up.

It's culture when the ancient Hebrews do it themselves. It becomes religion when the act is commanded/condoned by God.

As for the part about Christians today not believing in magic as a whole, perhaps you should look up the attempts to ban Dungeons and Dragons, the huge Christian counter-movement against New Age religions like Wicca and neo-Druidism and the Harry Potter book-burnings that frequent southern America.

The entire witch hunt going on today is Christian-driven :| How you didn't see this, I'll never know.

And yes, I do have a vendetta against Christianity. I've been tormented, teased and taunted by Christians for the majority of my life.

I have every reason against it.
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WolfySpice's avatar
I think there are just two questions you need to ask yourself: do you believe any of it? And secondly: why do you believe it?

You don't have to believe it because you were told to. Ask questions, do research, and form your own conclusions. You sound a lot like a lot of Christians I've met. They barely even believe in any of it and they openly scoff at the inequality perpetuated by believers. Those I've known are only 'cultural' Christians, whose beliefs are far more closer to a secular humanist's worldview...
FerricPlushy's avatar
The amount of thought and patience you're putting into your decision leads me to believe that you are in fact not trying to spite your father, but that you have serious qualms about your religious beliefs.
While men and women both excel at different things, it really depends on the individual, not their genitals. Not everyone woman has "motherly instinct" and not every man knows what is best for his family.
When you start putting people into groups (men, women, black, white, straight, gay, parents, children) and forcing certain attributes onto those groups, you've already closed your mind to reality.
If you're dad is paying the bills, and you're living in his house, yeah you have to listen to what he says. As soon as you're on your own completely supporting yourself, you get to decide what kind of influence he has on your life, no one else.
I don't recommend completely burning bridges with your family unless they're just absolutely destructive and/or manipulative, circumstances are fleeting, you never know when you'll have to fall back.
UnagiTakanashi's avatar
lets also not forget that it was a woman who brought jesus into the world and not a man
:icontrollfaceplz: eat that fathers of the world
WhiskyOmega's avatar
I may be a Pagan but I've studied the Bible from cover to cover as well as done allot of research on the religion surrounding it, keeping an open mind as I've done so. I've had many Christian and religious friends over the years and they've welcomed me into their churches with open arms, knowing what I was; when it came to beliefs we all just agreed that we all had different views and respected them. Coexistence and tolerance are wonderful things and we all agreed the world would be a much better place if more people practiced them. :)

Your father sounds like many "old-school" believers, stuck in the old ways when women were property and what a man said was law, more or less.
Those days are past, thank goodness.

In some way, he is somewhat correct when he speaks about being your parent no matter how old you become and how a child should always obey their parents; parents are not above being flawed, however, so it should also be remembered that they are people too and, like all people, can be wrong at times. That said, always obeying them allows wiggle room, especially if they're wrong. However, being as none of us would be here without our parents, we should always respect them for that gift alone as there is no payment high enough to repay the gift of life they gave us, which they didn't have to do, we must remember. Taking that for granted and showing them disrespect (if they didn't deserve it because, lets face it, some parents should be locked up and shut away for some of the things they do to their kids) is being ungrateful for the gift of Live they gave.
That I can understand.

Your father's view of women, however, has only to do with the old, outdated views of women in the past. We must remember, not long ago women were viewed as property and baby-making machines; they had no rights and weren't viewed as people. It was during those times the Bible was written, so much of what the Bible says has to do with culture at that time.
This is where I have a problem with people who chose to follow the Bible exactly as it was written, because much of what it speaks of no longer has any relation to our current cultures. These days women are people, they have rights, they can hold a job, own a home, and have wealth the same as men do (in most cultures, anyway. in some, women are still considered lesser beings, if not still property.)
Your father's simply decided not to be current with the times and I believe that's a big disservice he's doing to himself and the women he's around.

Sorry for the long rant.
impoliticalsowhat's avatar
Don't give up on God, especially just because you're not in good terms with your dad.
I think your dad's input what the Bible says should encourage you to pray to God and study (not just read) the Bible for yourself. Then you're prepared for the next time your dad brings it up.
As a teenager, you're going to butt heads with your parents (both of my parents for me). A lot. The Bible says to Honor your Father and Mother, but that doesn't necessarily mean do everything they say (But in their defense, they've got some years and experience on them, and on some occasions know better than you do. I know that's a difficult fact to face, but it's the truth). I heard "Honor your Father and Mother" as meaning to live a life that makes people think you must have great parents, whether you did or not. :D
If you need someone to pray for you, I would love to. Family fights are certainly a difficult issue, but God will carry you through this if you ask him and remain faithful, no matter how hard it gets. Know that whatever your dad says to you, God loves you. And I'm sure your dad loves you too. Sometimes parents boss their kids around because they're scared for them.
I know it's become a slogan, but it's good to constantly remind yourself, "What Would Jesus Do?"
Keep me updated (private message preferred) on your dad and what God's doing in your life and anything you want prayer for. Peace and grace upon you, fellow Deviant.
xAtalayax's avatar
You can believe in God without following a religion. If you believe in God, don't let your father sway you from that because of his ignorance just go by what you believe. Being an antireligionist, if you disagree with religion and it's teachings that is, is a great way to still believe in your higher power without being suppressed by religious teachings.
connorlamping's avatar
ho boy, quite the topic. XP

Being a Christian myself, I've grown up on a lot of these virtues, but since I also have a brain, I can understand when they should and should not be used.

The first part (in my opinion) is subjective for many reasons. Respect is important, not only in religion, but also in life in general. But if you know that someone is an asshole that doesn't do jack or someone you despise, even if it is a family member, realize that you are an individual with your own human thoughts and emotions and thus are able to make decisions on your own, and explain. Not to mention that if your parents expect you to do something you know is wong

As for the second part. HE IS DEADEADEADEAD WRONG!!!!! Yes the story of creation is true, but you must know that its almost opposite in the world of today. My dad blatantly admits that he would probably blow up if my mother died because she does everything, and the whole family knows that my mother is the leader of the household XD

as for your dilemma in religion, that's entirely up to you. If you look back in history, people did a lot of crazy stuff in the name of this god or that deity. So yes, it's perfectly understandable that you would have trouble with religion just knowing that. Also, since it sounds like your dad is trying to control you through religion as well, I can totally see why you would want to say "screw Christ, Cthulhu Ftagn!"

Here's a few tips I would recommend if your troubled.

Don't let your dad influence your mindset on religion. You are your own person and thus can make decisions for yourself.

Also, keep your mind open, don't let it close to certain concepts that you think are stupid or just confusing. Take me for instance. While I am Christian, I believe in many ideas and concepts that I learned while studying various forms of Paganism.

I hope this helps a little bit, and if you need a little more help, my notebox in here is always open for you :D
UnagiTakanashi's avatar
dear god you wrote more than i did!
connorlamping's avatar
but considering the length of the other peoples' responses, mine are actually fairly brief XD
Solum-Ipsum's avatar
Sometimes respect (of an authority) is expressed through support, even if it means opposing the person you respect. Your father seems to be full of pride for his appearance, but remind him that a human is a trinity, and having a dick doesn't imply that he's not a cunt. Rather than demanding respect, he should earn it for himself. A good ruler (which, in this case, is the head of the family) should be responsible and provident like Jesus Christ.

I'm the type of person who seeks for the Truth, and as such a person, I have come to understand a lot of profound wisdoms in the past three years. Mankind is in a function of a self-inducing error. It's like when a pebble starts rolling down a hill, and then it hits two more that would roll further with it, and in the end, an avalanche would lay waste in the valley. It isn't others a person has to change, it is always oneself. In the paragraph, I brought up Jesus, but it could be any other holyman of any other tradition that is properly oriented toward the spirit.

Though I disagree with you on the idea of equality, I understand that your reasoning is governed by the horizontal fertility of Femininity (without a negative connotation). From my perspective, it is mutual respect that should govern our social relations.

God isn't a chauvinist. God exists in each and every single one of us, and He wants us to be as He meant us to be: by His own image. Everyone who rules must care for those they rule over. God gave us all the potential to grow up to Him. Love includes responsibility. Love may be hurtful, so to the one you love as well as to you.

Okay, that last paragraph was a bit random, and since I've started to ramble, it's time I finish before I start preaching about stuff you never asked for.

If you have any questions about this, feel free to ask me. :)
HaniSantosa's avatar
and having a dick doesn't imply that he's not a cunt --> ROFL
UnagiTakanashi's avatar
dont give up on god, the only way and the only truth, just because your dad is bending what the bible says to fit what he whants wich is a sin. technically, before god created adam, he created dinosuars ans angels and demons and saten, etc. but dose that mean that all those are better than us? no, it even says we will be above the angels when we are in heven. and no, the bible dosnt say thaat the man will rule over the house. what it really is saying is that if there is a "situation" then the man and the woman must come to a conclusion TOGETHER and work things out. if compromise cannot be made only then dose the man take charge and even then they should still talk. and if you dad is useing the "respect your parents" thing to say "im better than you so do what i say" then point out that the bible also says that the father should not provoke thhe child into disrespecting them.
another thing, it says that the man and the woman are equals. yes the woman was tempted by the serpent and tempted adam to eat the fruit as well, but look at it this way: the woman was stupid enough to listen to satin, and the man listend to her. that means that the man was indirectly fooled by the serpent and is just as stupid for listening. man are not above wemon and wemon are not above men, even though the man is suposed to treat the woman as a surperior and the woman is suposed to treat the man the same. dont let your father ruin your souls future just because hes arogant

on another note, sorry for writeing a book for you XD
DeWolfie's avatar
Well, I am sort of a athiest, and I also believes that your parants have the last word until you are 18, where in most countries you are legally an adult...