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November 5, 2012
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Free Will or Determinism?

:iconstxl87:
Stxl87 Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
do you think everything and human action is predetermined? or that humans have free will?
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think we have free will, and nothing is predetermined
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:iconsoriyns-knight:
Soriyns-Knight Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2012  Student General Artist
If I read a book, I'm going to have to stop reading it eventually for one reason or another. Something like this is inevitable to happen and I can't do much to change it, but the time that I choose to finally stop is up to me.
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:iconwhiskyomega:
WhiskyOmega Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2012  Professional General Artist
I don't believe in Fate, only Destiny.
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:iconjustmango:
justMANGO Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Leibnizian compatibilism.
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:iconlyteside:
lyteside Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2012
I've never understood why the two must be mutually exclusive...
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
if everything is predetermined, how come we have free will?
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:iconwolfyspice:
WolfySpice Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
There is no free will. However, the world is complex and governed by natural laws. It's incredibly difficult to model every single happenstance in the universe to definitively predict the future, yet we often do to a lesser degree. Even human behaviour.

We all react automatically to stimuli. We don't choose so much of what we do. Why did I look right? I dunno, I just did. Why did I scratch my back? Because I was conscious about it earlier and decided not to. Why did I do that? Hell if I know; to make a point about free will, I guess. Which is why I scratched my back without thinking just before because that point slipped from my mind and I just reacted to stimuli. And it felt great, so I'd do it again.

We have no free will, but our ability to think and be aware of so many things can make our choices so unpredictable to both other humans and ourselves, that free will feels real. Simply because we're so often not conscious of so many things our own bodies do. We make choices all the time, but we have no choice in the matter. Like then, I rested my chin on my hand. I chose to do that automatically... but it wasn't a conscious decision.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Without reason, there is no free will.
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012
And yet with reason, there is no free will.
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Professional General Artist
I don't know. I think we have free will because we do have the ability to make choices free of coercion and some self-determination. I think we don't have free will, because we able to speak of how humans generally behave, and there are always factors influencing and limiting the kind of choices we make. I tend to take the pragmatic view that free will is a useful concept, even if it's an illusion (or simply not the whole truth).

If you want to take a more scientific tact, there have been studies that people show more ability to improve when they believe intelligence is malleable, rather than fixed: [link]
I think this behavior might also be related to stereotype threat, i.e.: [link]
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012
Ah the joys of a vaguely defined concept!

I think most people agree, the differences of opinion lie in how each perceives free will.
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2012  Professional General Artist
There is that argument as well. I mean about "free will" being vaguely defined.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
From our POV we have free will.

From what we know, we do not.

Get your head round THAT for a lark.
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:icon3wyl:
3wyl Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Nah, no free will. :B
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:iconno-doves-fly-here:
no-doves-fly-here Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
"Free will" hardly exists within our perceivable reality, let alone as some supernatural force.
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
How do you know that actions don't have random outcomes but that you also can't control. Huh. HUH. Why isn't that an option?
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012
There's terms for that, although I don't remember what they are. Its what was opposite soft determinism on a chart I saw. So feel free to take that option.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Because determinism.
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:iconnickdruminor:
nickdruminor Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
i have no choice but to say "Free Will."
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I feel like I shouldn`t have laughed, but I did. :lol:
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:iconnickdruminor:
nickdruminor Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
sorry for second post, but the great thing about it is that the above statement works on a serious level too. So much of human civilization is built on the assumption that humans have free will. If it didn't exist so many things would just collapse. Government, law, all of that would go out the window (why have a governing body if you are already locked in to your every action, how can you justify prison and execution if a person only did what he was destined to do, ect.) All of society is deeply invested in the notion that free will is a thing. But that doesn't actually guarantee that it is.
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:iconnickdruminor:
nickdruminor Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
no problem, I laughed :D
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Human beings have always got a choice, that most human beings choose to be slaves is unfortunate.
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:iconhurricaneclaw:
Hurricaneclaw Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I see what you did there :paranoid:
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:iconiriastar:
Iriastar Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
One predetermines one's own future with the present and past actions. So... both.
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
I'm a hard determinist. Free will is an illusion and there's no such thing as truly random: what looks random only has a hidden cause. Even in quantum mechanics it's not random, we just don't see the cause because time is tri-dimensional at that level.
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:iconhurricaneclaw:
Hurricaneclaw Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
So if I flip a penny and it lands on tales then it means something?
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012
It means the minute angles, air pressure, trajectory, etc caused the penny to land as tails. Not random. But if you mean is the result connected a decision made by penny toss, eg was Steve meant to pay the bill, yes but not in a magic "power of fate" way, in a you chose to let the penny flipping mechanics decide way. Our "choices" in turn are caused by mechanics of their own, mainly genes and environment.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Necessitarianist?
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012
I suppose so, yes.
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:iconopiumrooster:
opiumrooster Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
everything is predetermined by your own preferences.
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:iconjm764:
Jm764 Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Technically Both...

You have free reign over the decisions you get to make... how ever the consequences (good or bad) limit what can happen next, thus predetermining what you can do next...
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:iconhippo-rim-job:
hippo-rim-job Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
I used to think things were predetermined until I saw Honey Boo Boo.
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:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
we can choose. but being able to choose between apple and chicken for dinner is not free will.
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Oh my! What a deep and intellectual question you've proposed! I've never heard someone come up with some an amazing inquiry such as this.
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:iconkingstephenarthur:
KingStephenArthur Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Student Photographer
so, what's the answer then?
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Humans have free will.
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:iconkingstephenarthur:
KingStephenArthur Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Student Photographer
damn, you're smart.
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
It's only logical to assume so, nothing's stopping me from killing myself, or from doing whatever else I want. There is no force telling me to do something, and if you hear some voice telling you to do something then you're insane. Now as for everything else being predetermined, that's a different story and if you were to ask me I don't believe that either. But, if that were in fact true then free will has a key role in it. But wait there's more! That leaves a contradiction, if everything is predetermined, then why not sit back and let what happens happen? Because, then it won't happen, so yes humans have free will and nothing is predetermined.
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:iconkingstephenarthur:
KingStephenArthur Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Student Photographer
It does appear that we have free will doesn't it?

I don't give a fuck about predetermined shit, lol.

I wouldn't be so certain of yourself however. I do not hold the answer unfortunately. The answer to this question is unknown.

Submit your answer for a nobel prize, if you win I'll agree.
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:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
too bad hes not a machine huh?
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
What?
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:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
your name
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I honestly don't understand what that has to do with anything.
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:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
you say he is intellectual. your nickname is Machine-Intllectual. so i make a joke: too bad he is not a machine too huh? not much logic behind it. i dont know why i found it funny myself
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I know, I'm just busting your chops.
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:iconlyteside:
lyteside Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
*head explodes*
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