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Posted: August 8, 2012

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Radical Secularism or infringing on my right to impose myself on you

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~Ragerancher Aug 8, 2012

As most of us know, western nations are all secular nations. Secularism is a belief that no religion should be given a privileged position in society nor put at a disadvantage in society. Everyone should be free to have their own beliefs as long as they don't impose them on others or society as a whole.

Now some religious people seem to have taken issue with this sound principle. According to some, preventing them from imposing themselves on others is somehow infriging on their rights. I can't help but wonder when these people got it into their heads that they have the right to impose themselves on others? Not allowing someone to go round hitting people with a stick is not infringing on their rights, it is protecting the rights of others.

The simple fact is radical secularism is actually plain and simple secularism. People used to a position of privilege don't like it when it is removed. Another analogy would be that of a child stealing all the toys and then throwing a tantrum when they have to give them back.

So what do people here think? Is there such thing as radical secularism and, if so, what makes that different from standard secularism? Is there simply a lack of education with regards to what secularism means and so people are misinterpreting it? Lastly, do any of you believe a single religion should have a privileged position in society and, if so, why?

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*ElaboratePlanet Aug 31, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

thanks for this topic, i just learned that i hold a secularism belief to some degree.

its a great principle, the only problem is, Justice can be lost.

i.e. lets say one group of people believe in something that hurts another. if secularism is extreme, then others would not interfere. the only way justice can prevail, and save a person, or rescue and help others who are stuck, is to go against that principle, and impose our beliefs/values/principles through our actions.

how do we balance both? as much as i believe in this principle, i also believe in contradicting it because i believe in justice and saving people within reason.

as for the main body of your question:

the answer is NO. i dont believe any fancy beliefs in a beautiful story in an old book should have any privledge or right to reign atop of others and rule them.

i have sometimes envisioned a world where countries were based on nations, and beliefs - choice.

so for example. all secularian belief people, live in peace amongst each other in one country, by choice. as do all other countries in their own beliefs. this way there is no genuine reason for war, but only reason for peace. there would be less or no reason for elections or governments, or voting for different leaderships.

when people of different beliefs, values, principles etc, live amongst each other, there is war, difficulties of all kinds.

unfortunately, since humans don't all share 1 universal language, it makes that transition and possibility impractical to accomplish.

the last thing i wanted to add was that despite people or countries being devised by their beliefs in harmony and peace.

there will always be a need for laws and rules that people follow to manage offenders.

some basic universal principles.

to not cheat, harm, kill, assault, or abuse another. etc.

certain freedoms.

~eggain Sep 17, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

lets say one group of people believe in something that hurts another. if secularism is extreme, then others would not interfere. the only way justice can prevail, and save a person, or rescue and help others who are stuck, is to go against that principle, and impose our beliefs/values/principles through our actions.

What the fuck are you talking about? Protecting people isn't imposing our beliefs on someone, it's protecting the rights of another person.

~MARX-MAN Aug 27, 2012 Professional Artist

It has become abundantly clear to me that you don't understand what 'Secular' means.

~Ragerancher Aug 28, 2012

Oh really? How would you define secular?

~MARX-MAN Aug 30, 2012 Professional Artist

I do not define words as I am not a dictionary.

Oxford defines secular as:
"not connected with religious or spiritual matters:
secular buildings
secular attitudes to death
Contrasted with sacred." (Pearsall et al. 2012, sec.1)

Of course it goes into specifics later on.

"Christian Church (of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule; not belonging to or living in a monastic or other order.
Contrasted with regular."(Pearsall et al. 2012, sec.2)

Neither of these definitions assert that 'Secularism is a belief' in any way, so when you state that "Secularism is a belief that no religion should be given a privileged position in society nor put at a disadvantage in society." (Ragerancher 2012) it becomes patently clear that you don't understand what secular means. Either that or you don't understand what beliefs entail.
Just to be thorough, a belief entails a trust or confidence in someone or something, if an action or stance is taken due to not trusting or having confidence in a system then it is implying the action is the antonym of belief, disbelief, dis- being the prefix meaning; 'not' or 'the opposite of'.

~Ragerancher Aug 30, 2012

Well that argument made no sense. If you are for secularism then your belief is that secularism is the correct system.

Also you haven't even done the search for secularism, you searched secular. Secularism is more than simply not being connected with religious or spiritual matters, it is also the enforcement of that in society as a whole, preventing religious groups from imposing their views on others too.

~MARX-MAN Aug 30, 2012 Professional Artist

Sigh, it still remains clear that you don't understand what secular means.

~Totally-dead Aug 31, 2012 Hobbyist Writer

Look up secularISM, you pompous nutjob. The name, not the goddamn description.

~MARX-MAN Sep 1, 2012 Professional Artist

Interesting, you seem to think that a word with the suffix'-ism' means anything more than an implementation of it's prefix.

The suffix '-ism' merely means a system or denoting an action or its result.

Like a baptism is the application of baptising or what you might be more familiar with is 'dropped-on-your-head-as-a-childism' which is what happened to you when you were born.

So whilst it suits you to call me 'pompous and a nutjob', it suits me to think you are an undereducated blow-hard who doesn't understand the nuances of language.

~Totally-dead Sep 3, 2012 Hobbyist Writer

Kid, for someone yelling at me about the "nuances of language" you are incredibly ignorant as to uses of certain words. Secularism is used by a huge number of people in the sense the OP means it. The word was coined in the 19th century in a similar capacity. Now look up secularism on it`s own in your precious dictionary. Go on.

Even then "The suffix '-ism' merely means a system or denoting an action or its result." is correct in a way. Secularism is the application or support of secular values. Which is exactly what the OP is talking about.

Ps: Unless you are capable of dragging your credentials up for examination I will take you for a well spoken pseudo-intellectual with zero knowledge of anything outside of what google can tell you in 10 minutes.

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Radical Secularism or infringing on my right to impose myself on you

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