Don't let her be alone with him. I'm afraid he'll do something more than just throw her on the bed. I would be with her when she breaks up with him as well. It would probably help to talk to him, and maybe there's a school therapist/regular therapist so he can talk to them.
Phones are a wonderful thing. It sounds like moth needs time to work up the courage to break up with Shorty. She can record a couple of the tantrums without him knowing -even voice recording while the phone is in her pocket would work. Then, when she's ready to break up with him, she needs to get all of her stuff away from him and go to everyone one-on-one and explain things, with proof that she's telling the truth. The important thing here is that she does NOT offer ultimatums, because then she will lose everyone as friends.
If she explains something along the lines of "Me and Shorty are breaking up, and I'm not going to make you choose who to be friends with. I just want you to know my side, because I'm scared that I'll loose you as a friend, and I don't want that to happen." Then explain the story with the evidence.
Also: She needs to make sure she has copies of the evidence. Preferably with a copy on your stuff that Shorty doesn't know about. That way if he tries to throw a tantrum and damage the phone, it won't destroy the evidence. This might sound like paranoia, but you never know with guys like that.
If I believed that therapists can actually fix this guy, I'd say he needs therapy. I quite literally mean FIX HIM because there's something wrong with his venting. My partner tends to vent in a similar way sometimes, to the extend of say, throwing his cellphone to the floor. It's not healthy, but it's not punching walls and doors for the drop of a hat either. That's bloody teenage behavior.
It's been said here before: she must break up with him. Some men just tend to vent that way, but if my partner would ever throw ME instead of whatever of his own things he has near him, it'd be over in a heartbeat. I love him very much but that's just how it is. Even if it's happened only once, it's only likely to happen again later. It might be painful for her to do so, even though he's obviously an ass, she might still love him. But it is as it is: this is for the sake of her own life. And later she will thank herself for ending this.
If she's worried about his reaction - which we all are at this point, I think - she could start by very slowly taking her belongings away from his place. But chances are that he'll notice this. It's better that she gets some help from you and other friends to get it all out there in one trip, then break the news, possibly with you and other friends by her side. (Assuming he's only such a violent ass when they're alone together. If he loses it then, at least she won't be unprotected and others can see what kind of a guy he truly is.)
And honestly? Losing some friends over this isn't a big deal. In fact, if they can't support her for leaving an abusive partner, they're hardly friends at all.
She said she's already slowly removing her belongings from his house and returning them to hers, bit by bit, and has been doing this since (I think) before the most recent "big" incident. At least it's a start.
I'm definitely going to suggest having SOMEone around when it happens -- at least somewhere else in the house so that if shit starts to fly, they can hear it and help her remove herself from the situation. Hopefully it'll all go well, or as well as it possibly can.
Lesson learned- when you are not over or through with a previous relationship, don't rebound into another. Things do not usually end up well and your choices are usually clouded by wanting to move on in your life too quickly. Sometimes you just need time to heal before you can move on.
She did wait quite a while (I suppose, I guess I really wouldn't know what a "good" amount of time between relationships is) before jumping over to Shorty -- about a year, to be fair. Perhaps it still wasn't enough time.
First thing's first. She needs to cut contact and she needs to cut it now. There is absolutely no question at all as to whether or not she should break up with him. He has shown himself to be violent, manipulative, destructive, and possessive. It will only get worse.
When she breaks up with him, she must NOT be alone. He will react poorly. Make sure you are with her or nearby. She must not break up with him in private, it must be in a place where there are MANY people. If it is in private, he may react violently and two or three people might not be able to control the situation. Furthermore, in public, he cannot prevent her from leaving and if he chooses to follow or harass her, there will be help nearby.
Contact must be completely broken. If he is as persistent as you say, he will cause problems afterwards. If necessary, she can file a restraining order against him. This may mean giving up some friends, but if he is as batshit insane as you make him out to be, they'd have to be crazy not to see through him eventually, particularly after the breakup.
I know Shorty is a friend of yours and you feel like you should defend him a bit, but that behaviour is completely out of line and there is no need to protect him. He's abusive, plain and simple, and people defending him only enable that behaviour. Please support your friend and let him be. He deserves no sympathy and had it coming.
I'm glad to get opinions on whether or not other people should be around for the break-up, at least in the vicinity -- I was worried that if she did it privately shit might go down, so I'm happy that other people are agreeing that it should be done with some back-up around to help cool things off or get her out of there.
I do admit it feels a bit... not mean, but weird I guess, to be vilifying Shorty, but believe me when I say I do know that his behavior is completely wrong and that I need to stand by Moth during this.
She needs to run, and run fast. Also have her record everything. If there are still bruises from her being thrown on the bed, she needs to photograph them. It's always better to have too much evidence instead of too little. If he throws tantrums, I would just have her clear her stuff out when he's not there (if they currently live together) and break up from afar, if she needs temporary shelter, have her check into the local battered women's shelter. I would also think she should go to a therapist for both her anxiety, and to help her heal from any emotional abuse. It seems from the story you tell she was forced into this relationship, and there could be some serious retribution from Shorty either physical or psychological, and she needs a professional support system to help her weather that.
I don't know if she has any bruises, since as far as I know all he did was push her down onto the bed and hold her still, but I have definitely warned her that even if she wasn't "really" hurt this time, he will likely begin to treat her worse.
Sadly there was a bit of force behind this relationship... Everyone loved Shorty and, for a long time, a lot of people disliked her because they thought she was using him when really she was trying to get over her past relationship while coming to terms with Shorty being right there all the time. I think she did love him, but she admits that she felt that she had to be with him because of all that.
I think she's already slowly clearing her stuff out of his house, fortunately(she was staying with him a lot but does have her own place).
she needs to dump that piece of shit ASAP. He is putting her through emotional abuse which is just as bad as physical abuse. Not to mention that he is controlling and she doesn't need that in her life. Tell her to dump him and get a restraining order if necessary.
She definitely plans on doing it soon, since she wants it done before Valentine's day, for obvious reasons. Luckily she does realize that this type of treatment is abuse, since I think for a long time she thought it'd just be easier to try to deal with it... I hope things go well for her.
I dated a guy very similar to this a couple years ago, and I did not break up with him properly. I saw him in person and I tried to calmly explain my reasoning, and he held me hostage in his dorm where he harassed and terrorized me for like two hours until his roommate got home and was kind enough to help me leave. He then proceeded to call me like three times a day to rant and rave and I let him because it seemed like the "fair" and "gentle" thing to do. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I would say that while your friend wanting to have a conversation is normal and polite, it's also entirely unnecessary.
If she's not happy, she can break up with him however she wants (even if he was as sweet and charming to her as he is to everyone else). And if he's the type to berate and scare her into a panic attack, I'd suggest dumping him over the phone in as few words as possible. All she needs to say is, "I'm not happy in this relationship anymore, so I'm out." The end, and cut ALL contact with this person (I wish I'd done this). It's rough and the shared friends will think her mean for it, but the harsh reality is that this guy will make them hate her regardless of how delicately she tries to end things, so she might as well be as abrupt as she can be. What will happen later is many of these same friends will start to notice that he's acting weird about things and they'll start to figure things out. She won't have them all back, but I think in time it will surprise her to see how many of them will come around and apologize for being dismissive.
But seriously. If she insists on breaking up in person, she cannot do it in a private setting. I know doing that stuff over dinner or in the park is not super classy, but she needs to think of her own safety first and foremost. I still think over the phone is best, so she can hang up whenever he gets too nasty.
Thanks for the advice on how to do the breaking up -- she definitely knows she needs to do it (and soon), but the "how" is the difficult part. I'm sorry to hear that your experience was so awful -- Jesus, some people are crazy, and thank fuck someone had come to help get you out of there.
I think she will want to do it in person (I assume so anyway) but I'll definitely suggest that she does it with other housemates at least somewhere in the vicinity... someone hopefully a little reliable than the one who apparently heard her and Shorty's throw-down and decided to ignore it. Perhaps I'll ask if she wants me around for it, at least downstairs or something in case she needs someone to get her out of there.
The thing is, this guy hounded her into a relationship and has been a shitty guy to her ever since. She does not owe him an in-person break up. I know that sounds like the right thing to do, but it actually puts him at the advantage to scare her back into it or beg and plead with her.
I really do understand her sentiment, but as someone who's been there before, it's not worth it. This guy has not respected her in this relationship like he should have, so she's totally entitled to serving up a cold and abrupt breakup. I was terrified when I went through it--I thought he'd hurt me or possibly even rape me at some point, and I would not wish it on anybody. And if she's prone to panic attacks, she'll be putting herself in an even more vulnerable position. It's her choice, but I'd try talking her out of it for sure.
Whatever route she chooses, I hope she comes out of it okay and does well. Wish her luck for me.
Moth needs to kick Shorty to the side and dump anyone in the social circle that chooses to side with a possessive moron.
Moth's goals in school are to be educated and maybe even graduate, so she should be too busy to worry about Shorty.
Moth should secretly record Shorty's outbursts and 'asshole' sessions and then show them to people if she needs to.
Also, since there is abuse involved, why hasn't Moth called school security or the police? That should be one of the things she does the next time he throws a tantrum. As soon as the asshole starts throwing things she needs to leave the room and call for help. If he tries to stop her that is even more reason to get out by any means possible and then call for help.
I think the main reason she didn't think to contact any school security is that the house this took place in is off-campus, in town. As for the police, I really wish someone would have called -- I don't think she would have wanted to bring the police into it, but apparently she had a witness in one of the housemates who was in the house during this and decided to ignore it. What. (Although, knowing the witness in question, I'm not surprised she thought it best to leave them to their devices.)
Luckily she does have her own place and only has a lot of her stuff at his because she didn't like her current student accommodation, but at least she does have a place, and if worst comes to worst she could even move up to one of the on-campus places.
I've known a few guys who are pretty similar to Shorty. Not so much on the physical abuse and unbridled crazy, but in terms of being very bad, selfish, and manipulative guys who are looked upon favorably by the rest of the population.
Think about it: the reason why these guys' "image is very important to him and he loves to be loved by everyone" is for the alibi. The more people love him, the less likely they are to believe that he would ever treat people the way he treats them. The less likely girls like your friend Moth are to try to malign him.
Why do you still want to be friends with this person? What value could you possibly find in his friendship?
I only hope that when everything goes down, people will at least listen to her side of it, or my telling of her side of it if possible. Luckily it seems like a few people aside from me are at least somewhat aware of how bad he can get -- it's a start, if anything.
As for me, I don't know, I think he's funny and when we all go out as a group he's nice to hang out with, but to be honest I don't even see him that often myself.
Sounds like you're a good friend to her, so even if not everyone's so loyal, she has you at least and I'm sure a few others.
Obviously she needs to break up with him. He sounds like a douche and her staying when she doesn't feel comfortable around him will only make her feel worse. I'd recommend that she does it in the most mature, calm way she possibly can - even if he throws a tantrum she should just leave - because then it gives people more reason to listen to her side of the story if she's the one acting good and he's not. Aside from that, if some friends ditch her without a moment's thought, it'll suck but it's not the sort of thing a wonderful friend would do anyway.
I know she'd have me and a few others (at least), and more still if they are as mature as I think they are and would listen to both sides of the story. I suppose we'll have to just wait and see on that one.
Sitting down with him and explaining the situation as calmly and maturely as possible is definite, although she's still freaking out a bit because she wants to do it before Valentine's day (as he wants to do something big with her that day and she doesn't want too much time to elapse between his most recent tantrum and her breaking up with him anyway) and the fact that this suddenly has a deadline is really stressing her out... She's halfway considering writing down what she wants to say or something, just so she can be sure that everything she wants to say will be said.
It's nearly definite that he'll try to guilt-trip her or, worse, throw a fit, but hopefully she can be strong and be the "bigger person" so to speak and just remove herself from the situation. It'll be healthiest for her, anyway. She's dealt with this for long enough.
I recently went through a break up and found out that some friends I knew from school weren't actually great friends after all. It hurt nearly as much as the break up, since I realised that these people who I once considered my closest friends didn't care all that much about me compared to my (now ex) partner. So I guess I'm saying I know how it feels to lose friends like that, but I also know they're not really worth the effort if they act that way.
She has just over a week, but the sooner the better really. I'd say that writing down a list of the general points is a good idea. Though if he's going to try to manipulate her, she should try to keep it succint to give him less material to argue with, as it were. He only really needs to know the basics. If he gets too bad for her, she can just say that she feels there's nothing else to add and leave before it gets heated.
Indeed -- losing people who you considered to be close friends is terrible (I've had to go through something like that as well), but I guess all you can do is just remind yourself that they weren't "real" friends to begin with. It'll still sting though, if that happens.
Yeah, I plan on emailing her the results of this thread in a moment to let her know everyone's opinions. I like the idea of having somewhat of a list of bullet points just to make sure she hits everything, but being short, sweet and to the point is a good idea as well.
I suppose it's obvious to us, but I thought I'd write this for her to get any extra advice if possible.
For the most part a lot of people did think she was making it up because Shorty doesn't seem like the type of person to be so violent, but for the most recent incident of a few days ago, there were some other witnesses from our friend group, these being some of the ones who previously didn't believe her and are now agreeing that she should break it off.
Although I myself haven't seen any "bad" incidents, there are plenty of red flags in his every-day personality that point to him being childish, spoiled and manipulative. He does a good job of hiding most of the bad points (like I said, his image is very important to him and he loves to be loved by everyone), but if you look for it, you can see a few "blips" in him that aren't very promising for a healthy relationship.
We've discussed this and although it all really sucks (hell, Shorty's my friend as well and I hate to think that he's shown himself to be so destructive), she does fortunately agree that breaking up is the best/only option.
I'm worried (and she's worried for this as well) that she'll be too afraid to break it off and will just avoid it until it happens again, and what if it happens worse next time?
I plan on either giving her a link to this thread or just keeping her up to date on people's advice, so hopefully comments like this will help her realize that something needs to be done, and inevitably that "something" is a break-up. Unfortunately they're set to be living together in a house of five next year, but if it comes down to it I may take her place in the house so she won't be stuck in that kind of hell with him for a while 'nother year.
Yeah, she probably should find a way to get out of that house situation thing .
In terms of breaking it off, as much as it would be tempting to have her punch him in the face, it might be better in terms of "friendship politics" and avoiding a bad reaction from him if she does it gently. Something along the lines of "I just don't feel like this is working out, I want to go back to just being friends, etc." Or something like that. It might sound a bit two-faced, but if the friends' opinions are that important, it might be the best way.
Otherwise, she can just tell the friends to go fuck themselves and do it harshly, although it doesn't sound like she would be the kind of person who would do that.
I'm sure her plan is definitely to do it gently -- as far as I know, she does care for him as a person and as someone she loved for a long time, and doesn't want to hurt him, but fortunately despite that she knows she needs to get out of this situation.
Anyway, I haven't heard from her since speaking to her yesterday, so it seems she hasn't broken it off yet. I'll have to contact her again tonight or tomorrow to see how things are going.
She simply cannot live in the same hose with him. It isn't safe, not for her emotions, nor for her body. (Or her property.) Would she move in with a violent criminal? No? Well, he is one. The things you've described are things you can get sentences for. He destroyed her property in a fit of rage, and he hurt her physically, not to mention the emotional abuse.
Most violent criminals are ok to be around most of the time. Most aren't constantly beaming evil from every pore every second of the day. But they're still dangerous. And he is one of them.
Indeed, she's been dreading the thought of living with him since even before the latest incidents; I guess that's gut feelings for you. In the end she could always take a place at one of the university's accommodations, fortunately. Hopefully the actual break-up and immediate aftermath won't be too terrible... Although in light of how he's been behaving lately, I'm worried for how it'll go down.
Well, she knows she will always have me to talk to, so no matter what happens at least there's that. I guess all I can do is be supportive as I can and hope things will turn out all right in the end... At least after it does all go down she will feel a huge wave of relief, I hope. She's been dealing with this for way too long.
Out of curiosity: since you both expect Shorty to start defaming Moth, are you willing to stand up for Moth and verify that you saw one of Shorty's fits? Or are you going to leave her to fend for herself?
I'm not expecting you to cause trouble, but things like this are extremely hard. Having a friend stand up for you when someone else is trying to make you feel like a piece of shit matters a lot. I've seen it be the difference in a decision to commit suicide or not, even.
There should be no question at all about whether or not she should break up with him. I will never for the life of me understand women who feel the need to be with those men, or who delay ending things because they want to try to make it work. If someone treated me that way, his ass would be on the curb before he could blink.
People are all entitled to their opinions, if people think less of her after this then so be it, it is their right to think that. If they aren't willing to even ask her side of the story then they aren't good friends in the first place. Just continue to be polite and civil and friendly, because fostering more resentment just creates more and more negativity and solves nothing.
Breaking up with him isn't exactly the question anymore (although she does still love him I think, but she does seem to realize that she can't live like this anymore); the question is really how to do it. His constant guilt-tripping, tantrums and manipulation have made her more than a little afraid of moving forward and away.
Indeed, I've told her that people may take Shorty's side and begin to disregard her, and that those people wouldn't have been worth her time in the first place... but it's a shame that he has such an influence over our group of friends.
Either way, she at least isn't trying to cause negativity, as she's asked me not to change how I feel about Shorty -- which is good, because he is a friend of mine and it would be awkward if it came down to pitting friends against each other. So at least if one side of the argument is trying its best to remain friendly, hopefully things won't go as badly as she's afraid they might.
As far as how to do it, this is definitely a case of pulling her stuff out and cutting contact, with maybe a text or phonecall so she can NOT be alone with him. She will be in a bit of danger when she breaks up with him, though not more than if she stayed with him.
I'm going to REALLY hope that that last paragraph was just bad phrasing. I can understand being happy to not have an ultimatum, but you're basically saying that you think what Shorty is doing isn't that bad. That's EXTREMELY callous when talking about abuse.
Oh and for the record, it's one thing to avoid egging him on, or creating more of a situation than there has to be and therefore dding more on her plate, and another to imply she'd be an inconvenience for you if she were to ask you didn't have tea with her abuser.