I am a firm believer in Christ, but also believer to be open to others, have a boarder view than religious acts, and trying to live a true life. Not wanting a religious debate too, just understanding, but will stand firm still. So also: "Any suggestions"
uh? the bible doesn't speak about "disowning children because they do X thing.". Concerning testaments, everyone is free to do what they want with their money and earthly possessions.
I am explaining what the bible says here not my point of view.:
Matthew 22:37-28 New International Version (NIV) 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
I don't know how explaining that a christian loves God makes me a "muslim extremist".
I have been discussing, fighting etc with nearly everyone I know about god not existing, religios scripts being story books or poetries etc but that never helped so just let em worship whatever they want ignore or just nod whatever they talk about heaven, hell blah blah and keep going your way. In time they give up and accept your way too. Now I mock god even when talking to most religious people I know and they just say "well thats just ismail we know" and smile.
Yeah that does put you in a dilly of a pickle. Well, tell her that she can believe in the you who will be there for her. Regardless of how we all go here, I believe the most important thing to do is for us to be with one another to comfort each other until we die. We have life here and we have to make the best of it, helping others out of the goodness of our hearts, as corny as that sounds. So anyway, just be there for her while you can. Say "though I don't have all the answers I do know that if we work together and focus on what's important around us then we will be fine. Death is a natural part of life, don't be sad for those who are gone, for they no longer have to endure the pains of the world." When people are attached to someone they like, it creates jealousy which always ends in disaster. As for her family, just remember you love her, though they may reject you, you stay true to your personal thoughts. As long as she accepts you, what else matters.
You shouldn't be so judgmental about something that gives her comfort and strength in her time of sorrow. Saying you "hate" when she talks about things that she believes so strongly in is kinda extreme I think. My fiance's family is baptist, and I don't really know what I am to be honest. I guess you could call me agnostic although I do follow some Buddhist beliefs as well. Even though his family and I do not see eye to eye we still tolerate each others beliefs. I've gone to church events with them and didn't grumble and scoff at their prayers or talking of god. I bow my head and close my eyes even if I don't think there is a almighty being listening in because of respect. Who am I to say that their god is not real? No one can say there is, just as well as no one can say that there isn't.
If anything about your beliefs ruins your relationship it will probably be your attitude or behavior toward hers. If you are respectful and open-minded about the way her family thinks they will be much more likely to accept you for who you are. Now this isn't always true ( one of my fiance's grandmothers still isn't on speaking terms with me because I not a christian) But you know what? That is her loss for not being open minded enough to see what a nice person I can be. When you close your mind to others beliefs you automatically close your mind to a part of them. So my advice? Open your mind, talk to her about her feelings on religion and don't scoff because it isn't what your believe.
I know a lot of people have put in their two cents about your situation already, but I feel like your dilemma is more so between you and your girlfriend. Not saying that her family has nothing to do with it. If she is very close to her family, it's not good to be on their bad side. And the fact that their possible rejection of you can be, through their eyes, a way of protecting their daughter, they're not going to make your relationship any easier. And even if they don't find out, do you really want to keep that a secret from them? Do you feel comfortable with doing that? But, I digress. The first question should be, "Is the relatioship even worth it to begin with?". And from what it sounds like, the fact that you have an issue with her religious routines(Praying, talking about God, faith, heaven, etc.) and the fact that you mentioned that you have a very strong position when it comes to religion, is already throwing up red flags. It's like people and smoking, it's one thing if you don't care for it, but it's another thing if you can't stand it. And unlike smoking, however, Faith is something that can effect a person's lifestyle and decisions(political views, family, moral values, etc.). This should definately be taken into consideration if you guys are thinking about marriage and having a family together of your own. Will you go to church with her?How will you raise your kids? What will the grandparents want for the kids? What if she wants to send them to a Catholic school? How will she feel about your kids dating or the idea of your children being sexually active with their own partners in their teen years or smoking? And most importantly, will you be ok with that? And the fact that you already have a problem with her faith alone, says otherwise. Because even with people who already have the same beliefs and political views, as heartless as it might sound, society has proven that love doesn't always last forever and it can get very messy the moment kids get invovled. I can see that it might be hard to make the desicion to break up with her, considering what she has had to deal with, but I think it would be better to break up now than to want to divorce later(especially if there are children involved). Don't get me wrong me. I do agree with what Haupia said up to a certain point, but if you really do love her and/or if you plan on being serious with her, then you're going to have to get over that fact the she's Catholic be more accepting of it, especially if she accepts you for being agnostic-athiest. If you don't feel like you can do that, than I would say that its time to break up. It might hurt her now but it might be best for the both of you in the long run. Regardless of your decision, I wish the two of you the best.
Ive been in this situation with an Italian back-grounded girl.
Its really this simple: Does SHE have an issue with you being non religious? No? then there is no problem.
There is no problem untill someone MAKES it a problem. And I see your concern. your worried her dad will MAKE it a problem, that could happen. But if you think her feelings for you are strong enough that nothing will come between you... then you dont have a problem.
You need to voice your concerns with her. If she cares about you enough.. she will stand up for you regarding her father. If her father cares about her, he will not make an issue of it. If he does he's being selfish.
She's not going to wake up one day and just drop the magic person in the sky bullshit, she's the religion's target audience :damaged people.
You're not going to have harmony and balance in your life with her so you have 2 options: 1. Shut up and deal with it until she dumps you for a religious douchebag. 2. Drop her, get on with your life and find someone you can actually share life with and not have to worry about the bullshit you do now. It'll be worth it.
I think you should really try to understand her and stuff. Whenever she talks about heaven and people there understand it might be she is trying to cope with it. Since you said she is a teen...i will assume you are a teen as well.
Take your relationship slow and see if this religion difference is manageable or a no-go. If you guys are like peas in the pod then I think it must our weigh the difference in your beliefs. However I sort of way to tell you don't try to "convert" her into a atheist. Don't bend her in your way to make her perfect to what you want...maybe she might want to convert you but just say it isn't your thing and hope she can also respect your beliefs.
and also being "anti-theistic towards conservative-type Christianity like Catholicism" ... change that attitude. A wise person will always hold their own beliefs. and be able to hear other people's. Just respect them and put aside your "logical /intelligent reasoning" and try to just show you know you are well mannered. If you can try to not be "anti-theistic" because her parents are hard core Catholics.
I feel like there is almost no doubt her family will not like your belief... but if they understand that you are a good man then they might be alright with it...depending on how her family is.
If you find out eventually she is probably the one meant for you then tell her to maybe have her talk a little about you. I know my family would be mad if i suddenly introduced a guy out of the blue that i never mentioned.
If you ever meet her parents... you have to find out what similarities you have with them... so that if you ever get into a conversation and you feel like it is turning towards the topic of religion...turn it away to something else that her parents would enjoy to hear from you.
Still, I didn't mean that as a blow off. I think it's all too much. If things don't come somewhat naturally, then... Well, these seem like problems that won't go away. It seems like maybe you either get used to the situation or leave it.
What do I know though, you know? Your story just reminds me a bit of a girl I almost married many years ago.
I walked away and married a girl that I was a more natural fit with. We're still married happily 8 years later. I feel like I could've been happy with the first girl but not as happy and with a lot more work.
dougcuevaFeatured By OwnerJan 6, 2013Hobbyist Traditional Artist
My friend, I'm a Christian and I respect your view but here's something I've learned...somewhere along the road the "faith" question will be challenged and will directly affect your relationship. It may sound preposterous, but it happens. In what way? well...it just does, no matter what either of you believe.
I think what he means that though your love may deep, your conflicting religious beliefs may be put to the test sometime in the future for whatever reason, and it may strengthen or create negative outcomes to your relationship. How it will happen, who knows. At least your girlfriend loves you though! I like someone and he doesn't view me in that way because I'm agnostic and he is pretty religious (which I don't mind and definitely don't have OCD to, haha). You're a pretty lucky person. I honestly hope you guys work out. :]
From what I've seen Catholics aren't evangelical and are less hardline than some other churches; if she isn't trying to convert you then I don't think there is a problem. What parts are bothering you apart from her references to God?
Ah. After reading some of your posts...it would seem that you both come from very different viewpoints. If you think it will lead to conflict...it might be better to end it, unless you can figure a way to compromise.
I have already looked at your information on another post. I was studying with intent to become a minister.
When I really studied the Bible, it turned me against itself.
Islam is no different. I actually study every religion that I can, because it teaches so much about the different times and societies. But every one has way too many things that is just to wrong or convoluted.
And divine proofs do not exist. Just another name of blind faith and evidence by "band-aiding" holes in our knowledge.
First, people tend to study the Bible, right? And they get turned down. This is the first step.
Second, because they read the Bible like this, they start to disbelieve, and they put this also on other religious scriptures, like the Qur'an etc.
Let me say first, to read the Qur'an, with an open heart. The Qur'an is not the same as the Bible. The Qur'an is a unique special book, compared with the Bible.
Divine proofs indeed do exist, but they do not exist for people who have closed hearts. See the difference?
So here, I suggest going to Google, and start reading the Qur'an, like you did with the Bible. You might think they are similar, but they are not. The Qur'an contains many scientific miracles and signs, 'Aka divine proofs', that will help guide you. Scientists themselves have accepted these and became Muslims, or have believed in God, because this stuff is IMPOSSIBLE for human creation.
Here is the link with English translation + commentary, so if you read the translation and don't understand, there is a commentary.
Thank you for the help. But saying that I have a closed heart is insulting, for the reason I am atheistic is because I opened up my heart to all possibilities to all religions that would reach out to me and studied many in depth.
But I have one question for you. Why is it that it is better to believe in the Islamic version of God than the Christian, or one at all? Why does it matter? Of course assuming that it convinced me to belief in its existence.
Good explanation. Sorry about that, I talk to many different Atheists every day, I get mixed up from person to person lol, so my attitude is different from person to person, I just mistaken you for someone else.
Okay, so as an Atheist, have you ever asked yourself what is the purpose of life?
I mean, we are all born, we all exist, we humans, we live, we die, and that's it...right?
I mean, there has to be SOME reason, for the sole purpose of our existence, am I right?
It is our human nature to search for a creator, we cannot live without him.
And I will tell you why we should believe in him.
If a person, every day, helps you out with something, acts nice and kind to you, gives you gifts and compliments you, will you be thankful for them for what they give you? And also, wouldn't you also want to give something back to THEM in return?
I would, would you?
This is the deal with God.
We humans are created because God willed it. Now every day, God has helped us in so many different ways, that he even says in the Qur'an, that if a person tried to count all the blessings he received from God in one day, it will be too many to count.
So God helps us out EVERY time, EVERY minute of the day, God is there, watching us, helping us, making sure we don't make a wrong decision, and he is keeping his eye on us, whether you believe in him or not.
He knows exactly what you think of, and what your intentions are. If they are good intentions, he rewards you, if you happen to do bad things, you can notice that every time someone does bad, they get punished in some way, like the parents find out etc, or the cops arrest you and what not.
The actions that we humans do, God sees them, and he responds.
Now God does good things to humans EVEN if the human is doing bad things. This is the MERCY of God.
God says in the Holy Qur'an that his mercy is FAR greater than his wrath, indeed, his mercy and grace is vast. As a matter of fact, Hell in Islam is not permanent, even for the worst person in the world, Hell may last a long time, but inevitably, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) said about Hell, "There will be a day when the wind will blow through the empty hell and the windows will rattle and there will be nobody in the hell fire." Or something along those lines.
This is the mercy of God.
So if God does all these good things for you every day, shouldn't you thank him?
God says in the Holy Qur'an, "And He gives you of all that you ask Him; and if you count Allah's favors, you will not be able to number them; most surely man is very unjust, very ungrateful."
Man was created ungrateful, selfish, arrogant, this is part of our nature. Only through the pure belief in God and divine guidance will one human be able to keep DISTANCE from these evils as commanded by God himself.
Now there are people who are not ungrateful, selfish, or arrogant, but they don't believe in God. That is because the power of God and his mercy extends even upon those who do NOT believe in him. And these people who are good people but don't believe in God, are NOT far away from believing in him, their hearts are already open, but THEY are the ones that have to make that first step towards God.
God does not guide a person to the light unless the person SHOWS God that he/she is willing to believe in God if the proof is shown, so THEY have to take that first step.
God says in the Holy Qur'an. "And my servants ask concerning me, I am near, have no doubts about me, when my servant takes one step towards me, I take two steps towards them, when my servant approaches an arm's length towards me, I approach them two arm's lengths towards them, if they come walking to me, I come running to them."
So that means you will only be doing HALF the work of what God will do, inevitably, for your ultimate guidance. We humans should surely be grateful for that.
I will leave the other question unanswered, let us talk about this first.
But it is not necessary for me to believe in any God what so ever in order to be a kind and loving person. I find many people use their religion as an excuse to hate, but I use my non-belief for nothing because it is nothing.
God has not helped me in my life in any tangible sense. Anything and everything I've ever wanted has come from my hard work. Is that bad?
My meaning, my purpose in life does not exist. No one actually was put here for a purpose besides procreating and assisting to procreate the species. But that does not mean my life is meaningless. It is up to ME not some being in the sky to give me a purpose. I decide what I want to do, and what I need to do and I do it. I do good things for other people because it feels good to do that, due to the dopamine rush stronger than virtually every drug can give you. I have purpose because I have created purpose in life. Others have to told me to do this, or do that with my life, or they have tried to fit meaning over my life. My life is MY life and I always will decide what my life will be. Whether it be morally wrong or right values, those are for me to set along with consideration of the societal values around me.
I give my life to the people around me, people who need help more than any god. My time is more worth spending time helping other people in need than give an omni-powerful god an ego-boost ( no offense brother )
Your actions are already Islamic, and righteous, even if you don't accept God and the purpose that was given to us by God, you are still inevitably following the same instructions that God had given to us humans that follow him. You are already following his desired path for you.
Remember, all good that comes from God is through your hard work, and when God feels like you have done something very good, he rewards you more, without you knowing it. That is his grace and mercy.
Humans are the only species that were created by God to have free will, so this is why you may be having these thoughts, because you have the right for free thinking. And this is fully accepted by God, you have the right to think for yourself.
When you help people, you are actually obeying God. God does not need anything from you, God just wants to help YOU, that is all.
God is the creator of this universe, he is the creator of you and me, he knows every single person's personality and our own desires and wishful thinking. God knows what we like and what we dislike. He is the creator of everything, he does not need ANYTHING at all from any human!
Everything that God wants humans to do, is for THEMSELVES, and if they choose to not follow it, it is their choice, inevitably. But you are still obeying the commandment of God, indirectly.
There are two types of Atheists.
The first are those that are arrogant, and mock God and his prophets and ignorantly refuse to learn or accept the facts presented to them. These people are transgressors and they commit disorder in the society. These are the people who have their hearts sealed.
The second type, however, are the type where they are doing EXACTLY what God is telling humans to do, but they have done it according to their OWN will, without God telling them to do so. God will HEAVILY reward these type of people when they come towards the end of their life. God is JUST.
God does not punish people simply because a human did not believe in him. Some people may not believe in God because they simply were not proven that he exists. That is fine. As long as they do righteous deeds and live their life to the fullest while working hard and never giving up, they are really just following the commandments of God.
The reason God establishes this religion, this system of life, is because society overall, the people that live in the society as a whole, they don't have the mindset to go and change their personalities for the betterment of the world. They don't know any better. They have no REASON to do good etc. Their wills are not focused on helping others and doing good deeds.
THIS is why God has established this way of life, this religion, this system, these divine LAWS, so that we humans can actually FOLLOW them properly so that it will be EASIER to see the light.
SOME people, like you for example, don't NEED a religion to do good, and that is AMAZING. But sadly, every human cannot achieve something like this, that is why there is a religion. It is meant to establish the connection between man and his creator.
I was lost, years ago, but a little over a year ago, I found my God, and I increased my worship in him, immensely, and as I did, my character, my ego, my personality, they ALL changed for the better.
People who are addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex, food, you know, anything. People are unable to stop doing bad evil deeds, they have absolutely nowhere to run to in life. Their lives are miserable, ruined, completely messed up.
This is where this person needs to find God, he is our friend and he is the best of all friends, because this friend will NEVER ever give you up, and this friends knows MORE about you than anyone else.
People who have been doing these bad deeds, they have STOPPED doing them, miraculously, because the will of God is very powerful. If God did not exist, then this state of immense spirituality would be unable to be constituted. It is true, because when we examine ourselves, us humans, we can see that our nature wants us to find that divine creator that is watching us. We know, deep down inside, that there is a purpose in this world, and we just have to find it.
We are all struggling to find that purpose. Some of us don't know a purpose exists, but they are still walking on that same path. And some of us already know the purpose exists. But we both are trying to find it, and eventually, God willing, we will find it.
Remember, GOD turns a person into a believer, a person does NOT turn himself into a believer. GOD is the only one with the power to convert someone into a believer, or make someone into a disbeliever.
If God sees potential in you, you never know, you might start believing in God one day. Because it isn't up to you, y'know, GOD has the power to change your heart with a snap of his fingers if he pleases, but this is your test. He is observing you, and when the time is right, it will happen.
Only when you are willing to even make a little 'peek' to see if this purpose exists, that little 'peek' could be all you need, until your life will be changed forever. ^.^
Now if you have time, I'd like you to watch this video. ^__^
I am quite happy in the way that you talk to me, even though we completely disagree on major points of reality. Respect is hard to come by nowadays
And anyways, it seems to me that many of the "formerly addicted" type are not really changed by a spiritual presence in a way. Many of those addictees need something to grab hold of fervently, something like drugs, eating, sex, or even religion. In a way, many of those people become the most devout followers, often completely blind to everything else but the god they follow. I enjoy phsychology, and it is quite surprising how not even former "addictees" still behave in similar fashions to an "addiction" to God.
I find it really hard to have any type of debate with you, not because I think you have a point , but because you are so postive and you aren't arguing from any point to begin with. You don't have anger or hatred towards me, as far as I know, and that says something most believers I've met haven't. I want to thank you by stumping me not with logic, but with basic human kindness and respect. I'm not used to recieving that sort of thing from people, especially when they find out I'm a non-believer.
But the funny thing is, is the way you labled atheists into two groups, haters and lovers. The same can be done with any religion, including Islam, especially when looked at in Islamic Law countries. But in all honesty I mock and poke fun at believers, just as I poke fun at everything else, including non-believers. I joke about the afterlife or the lack of it, of God and of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I do this because I found the best way to break down someone's barriers is to break it with humor, pointed at not one thing over another.
In all honesty though, "hater" atheists are by far the minority, and many of them aren't labled as athiests actually. They are anti-theistic (anti-god) or anti-religious (towards the actual institution). I think that if the institutions were to be non-existent much of the histories flux of extreme power would have been non-existent. This makes me slightly anti-religious. But I do not hate religion, only those who hate first and draw blood second.
Solum-IpsumFeatured By OwnerJan 5, 2013Hobbyist General Artist
You didn't really answer my questions. You'd make a "fine" minister with that, though.
So, again, what does "really studying the Bible" mean? And I don't think that being baptized and having baptized parents will magically bring you the knowledge of a theology degree. There are some Christians in my direct family, and they're barely more enlightened than thinking of God as some bearded, invisible sky-wizard. This is why I have serious concerns regarding this matter.