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November 26, 2012
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Need Advice for Situation with Friends

:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hello All,

I have two best friends who have been with me now for a long time. My one guy friend Alex for 7 almost 8 years and my gal pal Heather for 8 almost 9 years. My situation is that recently this summer while celebrating my best friend Alex's 21st birthday he disclosed with me some new and surprising information about our friend Heather (she was not at the party, she was on a mission trip in Africa). He told me that our best friend Heather, the most Christian, holy like, innocent girl on the planet, lost her virginity at a party before she left for Africa. I was and still am stunned by this information, I was told by Alex not to say anything to Heather that I knew so of course I haven't said anything.

It's not that I don't believe Alex but I'm not sure what to make of it. Heather still claims that she is a virgin. I know this because this past weekend she was telling me how she and her college friend who is getting married soon are still virgins. So does this mean that Heather is lying to my face about the whole thing? I mean I'm fine if she did have sex that's not what bothers me, what bothers me is the fact that she didn't tell me like she told Alex and that she is lying to my face. I love both Alex and Heather we have been through a lot together I just want to be able to get past this with some kind of resolution.

Is there any way for this elephant in the room to go away without me screwing anything up? I've tried not to think about it but when ever I get a chance to see Heather the thought just creeps up again. I don't know y'all, help me please.

Thanks,

Creativegirl91
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Devious Comments

:iconkizziesama:
Kizziesama Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
I'm not even seeing what the issue is. One of them is lying, clearly, but the topic... does it even matter? :O
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:iconflicher:
Flicher Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You should appear disinterested next time. People will tell you what you need to know in good time.
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:iconraismash:
raiSMASH Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
I think she's lying about it to you/not bringing it up because she thinks you'll be mad or upset. She's probably worried you'll be disappointed in her and she's nervous and doesn't want to deal with that. Sooo... I think you should just forget about it and when the time comes she'll probably tell you and if not, well... we all have our secrets. Don't let it bother you. I know that's easier said than done, but she probably feels guilty about it just as much as you feel betrayed for her not telling you.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you honey bear... ^o^ I love you!!!
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:icondutchconnaisseur:
DutchConnaisseur Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
Ignore the whole thing.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Well said, thank you :)
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:icondutchconnaisseur:
DutchConnaisseur Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
:bow:
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:iconlightning-13:
lightning-13 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Hmm, do you 3 tell everything to each other? I mean, maybe there is a reason for why she didn't tell you? and not telling you isn't exactly 'lying', if she twisted the truth, then she would be lying. If she still tells you she is a virgin, maybe in that case too, there is a reason for it. There is no way to know who is lying, maybe Alex is lying, how can you be sure? Maybe he is just joking about it?
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I am honestly not sure if Alex is telling the truth or not. Like I said he has a very good poker face so it is hard for me to tell. He was serious when he told me about it and when I was in denial about it at first he came back at me and was like I'm not joking this really did happen. And I know I tell them everything, and they in turn have told me a lot of their personal things as well.
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:iconshadee:
shadee Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Who she confides in when it comes to very personal issues is her choice. You can be the best friends ever, yet sometimes, some things might seem more appropriate to discuss with someone else instead.

Alex on the other hand, is a lousy friend if he passed on something which was told to him in confidence. Who knows what his source was even, maybe she wasn't the one who told him, maybe it was the person she was with. Or maybe it didn't happen at all, maybe he's lying. In any case, the fact that he blabbed about something sensitive like that at all, made up or not, makes him seem rather questionable to me.

I would put it out of my mind entirely. It's her personal thing and who she does and doesn't feel too embarrassed to share it with shouldn't have any impact on your friendship if you respect her privacy. If she wants to talk to you about it, she will, if she doesn't, she doesn't have to. As for him, I would keep an eye on him and I certainly wouldn't trust him with anything private ever again.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your reply hon. I appreciate your advice and I'm just going to continue on as if nothing happened so that one day soon I will just forget about it entirely.
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:iconmercury-crowe:
Mercury-Crowe Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
This may sound snotty but...it's none of your business. Maybe she was worried you would judge her or something. Or maybe she just doesn't want to share. Maybe she didn't tell this other person, maybe it was someone else. Who knows. Whatever the reason, it's her decision. Whether she normally tells you everything or not- which I kinda doubt. I mean, do you guys discuss masturbation and other really private things? And even if you DO, this is something she is dealing with in her life, the way she feels is right.

This is one of those cases that, from experience, the best thing to do is just leave it alone. 'I can't' isn't a good excuse. It's not your life.

So, the way to 'fix' things is to figure out how to ignore it. It's not their problem, it's yours.

Just think about other things and eventually it won't bother you anymore.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for your response. I am trying my hardest to forget about the entire situation. It just might take me longer than I thought. I appreciate your words and understand your reasonings, thank you.
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:iconnekonatsume:
NekoNatsume Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student General Artist
Even if people tell you is wrong, dont ask her about it. I learned it the hard way. Some things are better kept a secret, a friendship is a delicate thing, it can fade away on a second. A single word could kill an entire relationship, so beware.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks for the advice my friend. I'm not planning on saying anything so my friendship isn't going anywhere any time soon. :)
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:icondorkface4:
dorkface4 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
It's none of your business. If she wants to keep it a secret then respect that. It's a pretty dick move of Alex to tell you when clearly she doesn't want you to know. Sounds like Alex isn't trustworthy...
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:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I second this.
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:iconnekonatsume:
NekoNatsume Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student General Artist
Is it really that wrong? Not everyone is the same, some people care for their friends a lot. I had a lot of fights with really good friends because of those things. Is hard for me to accept their ¨lifestyle¨.

Im not amazed eitherway, all the people i know who did drugs,alcohol or had sex were ¨saints¨, and did it for the rush. In the end i learned is easier to accept it and move on, even if it kills me on the inside.
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
You have some real hangups if it "kills you on the inside" to accept your friends' decision to have sex, drink and do drugs. Some of us don't feel the same not because we don't care about our friends, but because we don't see sex, drugs and drinking as inherently bad things. Thát's the difference.
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:iconnekonatsume:
NekoNatsume Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student General Artist
The same goes for other people too, some of us do see it has a wrong thing, and will hurt us to no end to see people we love doing things like those. Dont assume everyone is a free spirit who agrees with those things.

I only agree on them to avoid the bullying and loneliness that comes with them, because i know im a coward at saying no and defending myself.
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
Maybe that's something you gotta work on, then. People doing drugs and drinking and having sex, provided they do it responsibily, isn't a bad thing. If you get all up in people's business because of your gut feeling (or if you don't, but it "kills you on the inside" to see people having fun in ways you disagree with), maybe it's time to investigate where those feelings come from, and develop a more nuanced worldview.
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:iconnekonatsume:
NekoNatsume Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student General Artist
Is sad people view the world from these points of view, but there is nothing i can do about it. Shit happens. Im trying to move on from them because they are a bad influence on my life, even if is ¨responsibily¨.

Different people see the world differently, that includes both sides of the coin.
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
So what? Just because you see the world one way doesn't mean it's the right way.

"Is sad people view the world from these points of view"

Haha, God. You're so full of yourself.
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(1 Reply)
:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Yes it really is wrong. Sex isn't like drugs, or alcohol. Its a natural thing EVERY BODY does.

Your judgement for something you choose or not to choose isn't okay. Ever.
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:iconnekonatsume:
NekoNatsume Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student General Artist
Why it wouldnt? Im tired of accepting all the shit everyone else does everyday. I just gotta sit down and see them do it, and if i ever open my mouth, shit goes down.

I cared with all my heart for every single friendship i lost, but im glad i stood up for what i believed, because it would have been worse seeing them on the grave, just because i shut the fuck up and sucked it in.
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:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Oh my having sex is so bad.

Wait, you just swore. OMG. Seriously, grow the fuck up. Sex is natural, its like eating food, or sleeping. Its what we're programmed to do. The only reason its considered a "sin" is to condition people to treat women badly for having sex, as when they are married, their sexuality is bought.

All you are doing is encouraging the slut-shaming environment. Well done.
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:iconnekonatsume:
NekoNatsume Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Student General Artist
No is not, for some sex is not a toy. Is not about purity, or the church or anything like that. Im not trying to convince you of anything and i dont care for the personal attacks eitherway.
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:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Who cares if people have sex, it really does not effect you in the slightest. From your attitude I presume you are a Virgin, so, is it really my issue if you are? Yes? No?

No.


If someone has sex, no matter the number of their sexual partners ( also when I say someone, I mean women, as this is always directed at how "promiscuous" a woman is ) their relations, or not of an issue. It is not illegal, it is not a moral disposition to do so. Sex is natural, fun, enjoyable.

All your attitude does is reinforce women should be "perfect". When I mean this, if you got raped, it would be ALL YOUR DAMNED FAULT. Heck, its not the rapists fault, nope, you must've dressed like a slut, oh you must of been asking for it.

You are 22, I hope you learn to grow up, your attitude and opinion on something entirely natural and, believe it or not, none of your own damned business.

So learn to exercise some free thinking, instead of going OMG JESUS SAID NO SEX.
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(1 Reply)
:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
My first reply wasn't that constructive, so I'll try again without the snark this time. (I still stand by what I said, though).

It makes a lot of sense to me that she wouldn't tell you. She has an image to uphold of herself as a "pure" and "innocent" and "devout" girl. Your every description of her confirms this, and even though you say you don't have a problem with her having sex, it absolutely blew your mind to find out she's not a virgin anymore. Whether you want to readily admit this or not, there's definitely a connection between all these values you ascribed to her, like "purity" and "innocence", and her never having had sex, and suddenly... she had. So, what now? What would you think of her if you found out? It's not unreasonable to assume that she's scared, or at least nervous, for that.

You also say you made a suicide pact of sorts (except with virginity, instead of suicide) and she might feel guilty about breaking that pact. I personally don't think it's a big deal, and I think that pact was kind of silly to begin with (I mean really, this is something that's only about two people, not three or four), but you're not me, and neither is Amanda. Maybe this was a big deal for the both of you. And if it was, she feels guilty about breaking that pact, too.

And thirdly, it does make more sense for her to talk about sex with someone who has had it before, but being a virgin has never stopped people from talking or being talked to about sex. So I think the above two reasons have more to do with it. Your pact didn't involve Alex, and seeing as he's had sex before, he probably has a whole less baggage surrounding virginity than you do.

So, there are the reasons why Heather probably hasn't talked to you. Or more accurately hasn't talked to you yet, and is just waiting for the right moment to bring it up.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Understood, I know where you are coming from, I just am surprised is all. I just want to forget about the whole thing it is just hard for me to do so. I'm hoping with more time this will not be in the back of my mind anymore.
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
That's very possible. When you find out about something that really shakes you up, it's best to sleep one or two nights on it. It's something that often works for me, maybe it'll work for you as well.

"Otherwise what have these past nine years as best friends really meant if we can't be honest with one another."
What I hoped to achieve with the above reply was that you wouldn't give it as much weight as you do. This is probably a big deal to her as well, but she doesn't know you know, and how it affects you.
You could compare it to coming out of the closet, sorta. Like, you may have your suspicions, maybe you even know for sure that a friend of yours is gay, but with a situation like that you understand that he'll tell you once he's ready, and not because he can't trust you. And yeah, he'd probably confide in someone who's in the same boat before someone else.

Basically, it's not that much of a crisis in friendship as you think it is, right now. But maybe you just need to give it some time, to give you the peace of mind that you need.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Peace of mind is something I have been trying to achieve since this summer when I found out. I'm hoping and praying that it will all be forgotten real soon. I just want things to be back to normal again, in my mind. Thanks for your advice sweetie. :D
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
Glad I could help. And you found out last summer? :bucktooth:

Okay, last 2c: She's keeping it a secret because she values the friendship, and she doesn't want to risk losing or damaging it. Not because she doesn't care.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I found out July of this year. So from your response I see where you are coming from, and I still love her, our friendship is not gone just because of this one thing. We have been best friends for too long for me to lose it all now.
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
What if you were friends for a shorter time? Like, a year or so.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
No matter how long we would have been friends I still would not risk losing her for anything in the world.
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(1 Reply)
:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Why on earth is HER SEXUALITY or what she does or doesn't do in the bedroom even matter to you? If Alex had done the same thing would you have been OMG NO!

Why does it even actually bother you, even in the slightest?
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I guess it bothers me because we always tell each other everything and for them to share in something so big as losing her virginity when she and I had promised to stay virgins until we were married it's a bit of a big deal for me. Alex or Heather could even be lying to me but I can't tell.
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:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
So? It is HER body. What she chooses to do with it or not is her choice. The reason she didn't tell you is because you're bullying her into being a "virgin" till shes married.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I've not bullied her into doing anything. She is the one who wanted to promise each other that we would not have sex before marriage it was her idea I went along with it because I agreed. Now that there is a possibility that she may not be a virgin anymore I am fine with that I just wish she could tell me and not keep it a secret. Otherwise what have these past nine years as best friends really meant if we can't be honest with one another.
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:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
And she changed her mind? So YOU are pressuring her into being YOUR ideal. You are the problem. Not her.
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:iconmorthax:
Morthax Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I really don't see the problem. :o
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:iconarmonah:
Armonah Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012
How is this an "elephant in the room"? It's a whole lot of nothing in a room.
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:iconignisedraconis:
IgniseDraconis Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
When it comes to situations such as these, it is hard for outsides to make an accurate judgment on the situation. Being as someone such as myself does not know you or your friends, I suppose anything I say will be rather inaccurate. But it sounds to me as if one of them is lying to you. I don't mean to insult either of your friends when I say that, I'm just offering a neutral view on the situation.

If there have ever been any past grievances between them, perhaps Alex is attacking Heather. If it isn't anything like that and you know this for a certain fact, Heather may be lying about it. But think of Heather's situation, if she is religious she may or may not feel shame about the fact she lost her virginity before marriage considering how important that is to highly religious people.

In the end this is a delicate situation. If you wanted to avoid a conflict, you'd best not say anything at all. Keep your eyes on both of them and keep a neutral stance and view on everything they say or do. Eventually if one of them are dishonest you will see it and know the truth. I'm fairly certain trying to talk to Heather about it would be a bad idea, especially if Alex happened to be lying for whatever reason, and also because that's a highly personal subject even among best friends. (That at least comes from my personal views on things, our views may differ).

I hope I have helped some ^^
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you for being the first to respond to my forum. It is always good to get an outsiders point of view of any situation. The day I had been included on this information I asked Alex why perhaps she told him and not me, here is what he came up with. He says that it made more sense for Heather to come to him since he has been sexually active for a long time now. And because I am a virgin then Alex would have more advice to give her than I would.

Aside from what Alex has told me. I believe another reason why she did not want to tell (if it is true). Is because we both said that we would remain virgins until we were married. So possibly she did not want to disappoint me by telling me that she did have sex.

I wish there was an easier way to tell which one is lying to me if they are lying but it is so hard. Alex has a great poker face and Heather is so innocent that it makes her telling me she is still a virgin sound believable.

I just wish it didn't bother me so much as it does right now. It's so hard to think that either one of my friends could be lying to me but I still love them to death and my feelings haven't changed. My head is just in the way of my heart I guess.
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:iconignisedraconis:
IgniseDraconis Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
To be honest, innocence is something I only believe it to a point. Usually the most innocent and unassuming people are the ones you have to look out for. Of course you also mentioned it was Alex's 21st birthday, so was he intoxicated? If so that could have something to do with what he said as well.

In the end all you can really do about it just pay attention to things and keep track of their honesty.

It always hurts to hear this I know, but in the end what she does with her life is her own affair. If she comes to you and involves you, then be involved. If not, best to stay out of the situation and preserve the friendship. It is natural instinct to want to know things about the ones we care about, but it isn't always healthy to know either. There are some things that should be left behind closed doors among yourselves.

Bluntly: If there is something she is not telling you, it is because she doesn't want you to know. Pressure on her to tell such a secret (if in fact it is true) will push her away from you. And suddenly you'll find yourself missing one of your best friends.
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I understand all of what you just said. And to answer your question no he was not drunk. We didn't have any alcohol at the party. I haven't pressured her to tell me anything, I have thought about it before but I have not acted upon those thoughts. I'll just continue to not say anything and see how things go when we get together for our yearly Christmas party coming up soon. Maybe I'll feel better and forget about the whole thing. I want to forget about it so badly you have no idea. Thanks for talking to me, I really appreciate it. I knew there wasn't really anything I could do but I just wanted to talk to someone about it. :)
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:iconignisedraconis:
IgniseDraconis Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, forgetting will help you. Granted, I would still keep my guard up if I were in your situation, but for the time even if she has lied to you, at least she hasn't lied to you about anything important to your life. At least it is not a lie that truly hurt you in more ways than principle.

I understand, I get the same way a lot as well ^^;
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:iconcreativegirl91:
Creativegirl91 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks :)
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:iconignisedraconis:
IgniseDraconis Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
No problem! :iconprussiabeerplz:
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