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January 1, 2013
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Critiques

:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
First off, I apologize if my spelling sucks, I'm typing this on my phone.

So, I personally love getting critique and am working on trying to give critique more often.

Of course, there's all the people who ask for critique and can't take it when someone doesn't ass-pat everything they do, and I just want to slap them a few times upside the head. I cannot stand someone asking for a critique and then calling it "bashing." There is a difference between bashing and bluntly critiquing. This of course is a double edges blade as people will say they just "gave a harsh critique" to justify their bashing.

I really cannot stand when someone will look at a critique that doesn't start with "OMG I REALLY LIKE THIS." or another way of complimenting the work before starting a critique. I for one will get straight to the point and don't really touch on the "pros" as I rather show the flaws for the artist and suggest ways they can improve. ((I'm working on always providing some links)) I prefer to compliment work in the comments section.

I was going to write more in a better setup but I lost my train of thought. .-.
Any input guys?

A random side note: I complain to much.
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Devious Comments

:iconamalaazula:
AmalaAzula Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013   Digital Artist
There's constructive criticism and blunt/harsh criticism.
Constructive criticism would be trying to help the artist to know where to improve and how to do so, and be polite enough about it.
Blunt criticism is this: "Da fuk iz dis shyt! U call dat a fakin dr@wing?? U dru dis & dat rong, u stoopid bish!! U shud dye & neva dr@w ahgen! i h8 it and i h8 u!!!11!1!12"

And I can see why people would get upset over that but if it's constructive criticism they are being butt hurt about, then they're just being pussies.
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Artist
Yes!
I don't like when someone just says something sucks. When they actually point out flaws and even just that it's even better. Better if they point out how to improve.
I personally care less about praise in a critique, as I don't ask for critiques to be praised on my work, that's what comments / favorites are for me.
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:iconask-araknia:
ask-araknia Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Student General Artist
I honestly don't mind if you are straight forward an harsh, as long as you know what you are talking about. Lol... and you give me some tips about it. Other that' bombs away... critique the shit out of it... actually... anyone want to critique my art now?
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Artist
That. :D
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:iconask-araknia:
ask-araknia Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student General Artist
lol what?
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:iconcrazie-girl:
Crazie-Girl Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I personally don't mind people harshly critiquing my work, how else would I improve? What would annoy me is if someone just pointed out all the negatives without giving any ways to help me improve.
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:iconh-irsch:
h-irsch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I'm personally a critical artist and I wish I received more critiques then I do.
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:iconprosaix:
prosaix Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
Spelling depends upon the person writing/typing, not the tool used to do so...
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
*facepalm* I meant in terms of paying attention to autocorrect or not.
But then again. You're Prosaix... imagine if you were an autocorrect. .-.
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:iconmaryyana:
MaryYana Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013   Traditional Artist
I think some people just handle things at the wrong moment. Sometimes I get people asking for help about something (such as the 'Hey I'm new to dA how does this work/what are llamas good for' simple question type), a critique, a longer comment, etc, when I'm really not in the mood for making a good response or looking at it. Know something that's pretty fucking simple to do when that happens? Not x it away or responding at the moment and saving it for later. It may leave people waiting, but that's better than giving them a slap in the face for taking the time to try and help you.

I believe the same method works if you are the type who easily feels insulted at first over a critique. Go away for a moment, do something else and calm the fuck down. It doesn't take THAT much energy to not make yourself look like a fucking asshole :lol:
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
Indeed. It's what I do with long comments in the morning when I hop on to check feedback. I normally reply to the shortest things first and reply to the longer comments when I've got time.

:D
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I really don't see the point of giving critiques on deviantART anymore. When I do manage to try to be helpful to people on deviantART (and that's the people that ask), I usually now just cut straight to the point and I don't go into detail because people cannot handle critique. Critique is akin to you attacking their children; their creation and their talent.

Two things happen when I give critiques: Either the artist is very, very grateful for the advice or the artist ends up hating me and thinking I'm a terrible person. And it seems lately all I'm getting is the second reaction and quite frankly, it makes me not to want to give any critiques at all considering that when I truly bother to give a decent critique they end up being 1000-3000 words. That means sitting down and looking at the art, looking at the artist's other works, researching examples/tutorials, and sometimes painting my own examples. That's an hour or so that I now consider wasting time because I've just been discouraged from actually caring enough to give input.
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
Indeed.

That's really quite sad. ;-;
Sucks that people's rude reactions are making you not want to critique work anymore, especially if your critiques are that detailed.
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:iconm-j-gagne:
M-J-Gagne Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I take the approach that every piece of art has pros and cons so I start my critiques with what I like about the art and then I go into the critique. I find that when you do it this way the artist is much more willing to accept the negative parts of the critique. The idea that critiques by nature most only be harsh, in my mind, is misguided. How can you know what is missing in a piece, unless you first identify what has been accomplished.
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:iconssensory:
ssensory Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013   Writer
I definitely agree with your version of a critique. :nod:
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:iconm-j-gagne:
M-J-Gagne Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks :)
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:iconssensory:
ssensory Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013   Writer
You're welcome! I usually critique the same way, for. I find it very effective. (when people critique me that way it helps...so I'd like to think it helps others, too)
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:iconm-j-gagne:
M-J-Gagne Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes I do think its quite effective. I have done several critiques to date and, so far, no one has come after me for giving them an unfair critique.
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:iconssensory:
ssensory Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013   Writer
Same here.
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:iconjericawinters:
JericaWinters Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I like getting critiques by asking a poll question about part of a drawing. I get a yes or no answer. I admit I have trouble taking them when I don't expect them, especially if they are just a list of fault finding with no kind words at all.
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
That's a good idea. I'll have to try sometime.

I agree there. There's a reason there's an Artists Comment / Request Critiques.
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
"Just a list of fault finding with no kind words at all" is still a good critique. When someone gives you a critique they don't have to compliment you at all. A critique is analyzing and dissecting a piece of work (whether it be art, literature, film, etc). And while I make it a habit when I do bother to critique someone to throw in little compliments, I shouldn't have to just to spare the artist's feelings. This is why I don't give critiques anymore. I get tired of having to throw in compliments rather than spending that time to really help the artist improve.

I'm not saying to regard people who are blatantly insulting your art. What I'm saying is that if you're ready to dismiss critiques because you can't find a compliment in them or "kind words", you are really robbing yourself of an opportunity to improve as an artist. :shrug:
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:iconjericawinters:
JericaWinters Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I don't believe that people's feelings should mean nothing as if they're just a dart board for those hard-ass types who have terrible interpersonal skills. There is always something good in every piece of art (I've come up with stuff countless times in the thumbshare section regardless of how novice it may be).
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm not saying that feelings shouldn't be taken into consideration. I'm not telling you to not feel anything if you get a critique. You are not a person with a heart of stone.

What I'm telling you is that you don't always need compliments in a critique to help you improve. A critique isn't there positively nor negatively reinforce you. It is there to let you know what you can do so that next time, it can be better.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Complimenting the artist by saying they have potential is at least worth the effort. It makes them feel like they don't suck. Just taking the art apart and saying what's wrong with it, and saying how they can improve without some kind of compliment can really hurt a lot more than you know. It's your fault for not realizing this.
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:iconshininginthedarkness:
shininginthedarkness Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I would be so insulted if someone said I 'had potential'.

Like.. don't worry, little girl, you might stop sucking someday :pat:

I would vastly prefer a list of problem on a particular piece than a sweeping generalization about my current lack of ability.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I wouldn't, because to me it says, "You have a lot of room to grow. Keep at it, because you're going to improve." Or at least, that's how I see it. I try to see the positive in everything.























By the way, would you mind teaching me HTML? I want to build a website for my web-comic and would like some help.
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:iconshininginthedarkness:
shininginthedarkness Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I see it like... everyone without brain damage can improve with practice, so saying someone 'has potential' is damning via faint praise. Maybe this is why it's so hard to avoid insulting people, when there's people like me out there reading too much into compliments!



I am being serious here, it takes more than HTML to make a website nowadays and my own knowledge base is like 8 years outdated. You would be vastly better off with internet tutorials, or even a nice library book. That's how I learn everything anyway.
At the very least, you need a decent grasp of CSS as well as HTML, but as I also understand it, a site that's plain CSS will quickly fall prey to roving hackerbots.
And this being said, if I personally had a webcomic, I'd probably host it on a blog site, or something similar, that takes little work on my part. However, learning to make websites is an interesting and laudable pursuit. I keep telling myself I'm going to learn and then I keep putting it off (I code videogames and could probably pick it up very easily). Here's a site to get you started, everyone says it's really good [link] AND it covers HTML, CSS, and Javascript.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Oh, I am definitely learning coding. Starting tomorrow (I have an art piece I am working on).
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
*reply=apply
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
First of all, the people I critique have no problem with the critiques I give. In fact, some people ask me for critiques when they see the critiques I give. I know what critiquing is. And I know how to point out what works in the picture and what doesn't. But that doesn't mean a critique that doesn't have a compliment in it isn't useful. A critique is there to help you improve.

Second of all, you are the last person to give me a lecture on how to critique people. To me, you don't reply critiques. And you are a reason why I don't give critiques even if people ask anymore.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
A compliment is recognition of some kind of recognition of achievement. Giving one reinforces a positive attitude of both parties. Perhaps you should look at this:
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Also, I didn't bother to look at the chart. What you've posted to me to me about "recognition of achievement" is elementary and over simplification of it all. You just can't take negative criticism about your art and you're trying to justify it by arguing with me about my points. Not going to fly. Nothing you can say to me at this post will even want me to welcome anything you have to say because you operate in a small bubble where people are supposed to bend at your beck and call; at how you want it to be. So take the chart and shove it up your ass.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Says you.
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
No, it's the truth. I dare you to let me critique your art. I bet you couldn't handle it. And trust me when I critique, I critique subjectively and not with prejudice.

I bet once I got to the nitty gritty, you'd be unable to take it because you don't know how to apply critiques or negative responses in a positive way.

And it doesn't have to "says you". I haven't been the only person that has pointed it out to you.
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(1 Reply)
:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
You don't really understand a critique, it is not someones duty to kiss someones ass, if they feel that they want to give their time to help them improve, then that is far more valuable than saying OMG AMAZING. However, you seem FAR too sensitive for the art world.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Well, I have been improving in the "taking critique" department as of late. I will agree that I am not always perfect in this regard, but at least I am being better about it.
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:iconself-epidemic:
Self-Epidemic Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Well stop taking things so delicately. It is in no ones interest to big up someones work, it doesn't actually help.
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:iconmurphysdinnerparty:
MurphysDinnerParty Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
[link]

You might want to take a look at this and see how I critique.

Then go back, apply the critiques you are given, and come back when you've improved significantly and give me a lecture on positive reinforcement. Seriously, if you can't even take the negative responses and find a way to improve that positively, you are going to become stilted in growth.

You are not always going to get positive reinforcement. And when people work professionally they know their bosses are not going to always give them positive reinforcement. Such is a fact of life and a very hard fact in the art world.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Well, okay then.
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:iconcatapultedcarcass:
CatapultedCarcass Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Only pussies can't take critique.
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:iconkawaii-cookies:
kawaii-cookies Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student General Artist
i agree. but i do prefer sandwich critiques. saying what they like and don't like :meow: it seems more nicer.
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
I've seen both. I normally do the Pros + Cons for friends when we decide to give each other a critique. Otherwise I normally just keep the pros in a comment.
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:iconkawaii-cookies:
kawaii-cookies Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student General Artist
interesting :meow:
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:iconjames--steele:
James--Steele Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I do that a lot. I haven't had a negative reaction to my critique, because I make sure to point out the good things first. Then the things that can improve. And then the general positives. :nod:
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:iconkawaii-cookies:
kawaii-cookies Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student General Artist
see, that's what I would call a good critique since you're being polite. :meow:
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:iconkinrift:
Kinrift Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I ignore anything to do with critiques because I'm too lazy to care. :lol:
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:iconhorsie35:
Horsie35 Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
input: i completely agree. i for one hate getting critiqued on things that i work really hard on so i dont ask for them. but i also hate people who ask for them then get all mad .-.
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:iconcontradictingcats:
ContradictingCats Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Artist
AUGH I hate that.
I used to do that, then realized how disrespectful it is to critique where it's not asked for an stopped. *Burns hands with frying pan* Dani is a bad elf!
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:iconhorsie35:
Horsie35 Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
lol nuuu dani is good house elf :)
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