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December 13, 2012
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Abraham Lincoln was an Asshole

:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
tl;dr I'd rather learn about Confederate general Robert E. Lee than Lincoln, because when you look at it, Lincoln was an AWFUL president.

No, seriously.

Dude suspended Habeus Corpus in Maryland and arrests 400 people, frees the slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation only to revoke it and send them back to their owners, was a massive racist who firmly believed in the inferiority of black people, sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives in order to complete the destiny of Northern industrial states dominating the US economy and drive free enterprise farmers into the ground, and only FINALLY illegalized slavery just so that Britain and Spain wouldn't recognize the Confederate States of America as a nation.

Worst of all, he's portrayed as a hero in history, rather than the awful, constitution-breaking autocrat he was. It's maddening. His fucking face is on our license plates down here in Illinois. The irony of it all, but than again, the winners write the history books...

Urrgh. You know who a lot of history classes gloss over that I'd REALLY like to learn more about?

Robert E. Lee.

Dude was a tactical genius, had a badass beard, and while he didn't want the Union to break apart, he was more loyal to the wishes of his state than to Lincoln's administration. Sure, yeah, he was descended from a slaveholding bunch of aristocrats, but he believed that slavery was, in fact, disgusting. However, he thought of it as a better fate for Africans than famine, disease, war and poverty in Africa that's been around ever since white people stuck their noses in it.

Plus, the slave trade wasn't economically sustainable and would have collapsed in a few decades. Lincoln freeing the slaves then was, again, purely political in motion in order to continue pursuing the war.

Guys, I'm serious. Lincoln was a dick. I'd rather learn about Robert E. Lee.

Though I might be in a bit of caffeine withdrawal/sugar rush/just feel like saying something stupid tonight so I could be speaking way too soon. So be a bit gentle as you rip me down with actual research into the subject, but for serious.
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Devious Comments

:iconhaujoptnob:
Haujoptnob Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2012  Student General Artist
Finally, someone who understands!
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2012
:dummy:
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:iconleucisticcrow:
LeucisticCrow Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Funny, my friend says almost the exact same thing. I thought he was talking crazy, but you may be talking sense here... must investigate in my disgusting amounts of free time during Christmas break.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2012
What you find might surprise you.
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:iconbumsy:
Bumsy Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2012
There were a lot of people in history who were probably massive dicks, rapists and other unsavoury things but we acknowledge and celebrate them anyway.
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:iconrykaz:
Rykaz Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
And this is why I hate politics.... But hey, Lincoln did have a badass hat!
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:iconspudfuzz:
Spudfuzz Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
This is why I keep telling people history books should be re-labeled patriotic propaganda 101. :crying:
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:iconartificialphantom:
ARTificialphanTOM Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Lincoln owned no slaves. Lee did. I agree that Lincoln didn't really care about slavery and used it as a political poker chip, but he did so to preserve the union. That is why he is a great president. He knew we were stronger as one nation rather than two and had the fortitude to tough it out as the country ripped itself apart as well as dealing with his own personal tragedies. He also realized that he might pay for it with his life which he ultimately did. He's still one of our greatest as far as I'm concerned.
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:iconcenaris:
Cenaris Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
and only FINALLY illegalized slavery just so that Britain and Spain wouldn't recognize the Confederate States of America as a nation.
Actually he abolished slavery partly because
#1 He wanted to establish business in the west which was also being competed for by the south and their "make blacks do your handiwork" contradicted his "every man should do their own work (someone cite me on this if it's genuinely wrong).
#2 The moment he declared all black slaves free the south was screwed. Perfect way to win the civil war.

Where did outside countries come into this?


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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Britain and France where going to support the Confederacy and thus have them be recognized as a nation, but as soon as the Union became the more moral nation, they dropped their plans.
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:iconthehistoryfreak13:
thehistoryfreak13 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student General Artist
Woah Im guessing you watched the movie! I'd have to agree with you on some points but Id have to say that Lincoln was a pretty patient person considering all the bullshit he had to deal with
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
He created a lot of bullshit himself.
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:iconthehistoryfreak13:
thehistoryfreak13 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student General Artist
true true but it benefitted the union so yay he is a hero (im being sarcastic)
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:icongenericschweinhund:
GenericSchweinhund Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional General Artist
But he did have a nice line in hats.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
At the time most everyone did.
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:iconcrimeroyale:
CrimeRoyale Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional
"Was a massive racist who firmly believed in the inferiority of black people?"

Proof??
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
I'll present you with it when I'm not on an iPhone and can link things.
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:iconcrimeroyale:
CrimeRoyale Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional
Bah, I say.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

Abe Lincoln quote. Tada.
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:iconcrimeroyale:
CrimeRoyale Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional
Impossible!
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I know; this sucks. This guy was my favorite president for years DX
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Dammit, Lincoln, I thought you were cool! DX
:iconheaddeskplz:
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
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(1 Reply)
:icondadona777:
dadona777 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
:stare:
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:iconcrimeroyale:
CrimeRoyale Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional
*shrug* Well, shit.

All things considered though, he's far less racist than most Confederates were.

(And on a more hilarious note: If you've ever seen the show "Reaper," there's an episode where the main characters are looking through wanted posters of escaped souls from Hell... and Abe Lincoln's is one of the ones in there. I just suddenly remembered that and it's now ten times more hilarious.)
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:icondabrandonsphere:
DaBrandonSphere Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
My name is Wesley Norris; I was born a slave on the plantation of George Parke Custis; after the death of Mr. Custis, Gen. Lee, who had been made executor of the estate, assumed control of the slaves, in number about seventy; it was the general impression among the slaves of Mr. Custis that on his death they should be forever free; in fact this statement had been made to them by Mr. C. years before; at his death we were informed by Gen. Lee that by the conditions of the will we must remain slaves for five years; I remained with Gen. Lee for about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free; he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to "lay it on well," an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done. After this my cousin and myself were sent to Hanover Court-House jail, my sister being sent to Richmond to an agent to be hired; we remained in jail about a week, when we were sent to Nelson county, where we were hired out by Gen. Lee’s agent to work on the Orange and Alexander railroad; we remained thus employed for about seven months, and were then sent to Alabama, and put to work on what is known as the Northeastern railroad; in January, 1863, we were sent to Richmond, from which place I finally made my escape through the rebel lines to freedom; I have nothing further to say; what I have stated is true in every particular, and I can at any time bring at least a dozen witnesses, both white and black, to substantiate my statements: I am at present employed by the Government; and am at work in the National Cemetary on Arlington Heights, where I can be found by those who desire further particulars; my sister referred to is at present employed by the French Minister at Washington, and will confirm my statement.

--- testimony of one of Robert E. Lee's slaves

Source: [link]

I mean, I agree with your sentiment that the Lincoln movie idealizes him and makes him look more racially progressive than he actually was, but you seem to lionize Robert E. Lee to a comparable degree. The truth is, there weren't many genuinely good guys in the Civil War.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
True.
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:iconloveinthesnow:
LOVEintheSNOW Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist
People are idealized all the time and always have been.
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:iconvi0letdreamer:
vi0letdreamer Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student Photographer
You live in Illinois too? What city?
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Chicago suburbs, but the classy ones where the worst thing that happens is an iPod gets stolen. :lol:
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:iconvi0letdreamer:
vi0letdreamer Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student Photographer
Ooh which one? I live right by there too. I'm in Chicago, Mount Greenwood to be exact.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Hinsdale. Stifling, stale, rich. Everything I'm not.
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:iconvi0letdreamer:
vi0letdreamer Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student Photographer
That's like half an hour from my house :D

and my friend lives by there.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
coo
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:iconsbkmulletman:
sbkMulletMan Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
All US rulers are assholes compared to Joshua Norton.

Now he was the best!
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
I'll have to look the dude up.
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:iconrockstar1009:
rockstar1009 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
DUDE. He was the Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico. Truly a great man. You MUST have heard of him. :(
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
coo
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:iconrockstar1009:
rockstar1009 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
In all fairness, Al Gore is probably the best president we've ever elected. His presidency never started pointless wars, never raised taxes and never caused a recession. While no one can say they were better off for his efforts, not ONE American can say they are worse off thanks to his being elected president.

The sterling record of the Al Gore presidency is one that is going to be impossible for every other elected president to follow. :no:
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Al Gore was president? :stare:

I ain't that gullible, ya know...

Wait, unless he was prez when Clinton was impeached... But that makes him president for only like two years...
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:iconrockstar1009:
rockstar1009 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I said the best president we've ever elected. THE JOKE HERE BEING THAT HE WAS ELECTED BUT NEVER SERVED.

:iconnapoleondynamiteplz::icontellplz: GOSH
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:iconsbkmulletman:
sbkMulletMan Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Let this be a lesson to you, kiddies: the person with the most votes LOSES.

And this is why I don't vote. Well, that and my blinding political apathy.

:iconscruffyplz:
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:icon3wyl:
3wyl Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh dear. :O_o:

Everyone is flawed, I guess?
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:iconbohobella:
bohobella Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
For some reason I can handle Lincoln-lovers far more than I can John Lennon humpers. That dude was such a royal dick, talented as he may have been, but people only remember the image he wanted them to remember.
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
I don't like Lennon.
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:iconbohobella:
bohobella Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
I love his music but the dude was a huge tool.
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:iconhewhoflewandfell:
Hewhoflewandfell Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
lol, well Lincoln was definitely not the nicest guy on the block, but then how could he be? The man WON A WAR! AS much as nerd and geeks and bronies around the world may want to believe, you can't win a war by being uber nice to everyone.

Was Julius Caesar a GREAT MAN? Sure he was! Was he a total and complete arrogant asshole? Oh, MOST DEFINITELY!

In the same way Lincoln was also a GREAT man because he stood at the head of a government that was fragmenting at his very feet. Not only that, he picked up the stragglers, slapped them six ways til' Sunday, and put them back together. It takes a great man to do all that.....and that great man needed to be a dick and a man who knows his tactics.

Robert E. Lee was a cool guy too. He was noble and honorable and all that jazz. We don't learn much about him only because his side lost. Ever heard of Jeff Davis? Yeah? You remember who HE is?..............yeah it's ok, most people don't lol
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:iconmisterturtle:
MisterTurtle Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. He revoked the Emancipation Proclamation. The entire Civil War was his pursuit of Northern economic dominance, for which he sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives. He refused to allow the Union troops to use the new repeating rifles, which would have ended the war far sooner.
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:iconhewhoflewandfell:
Hewhoflewandfell Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
I already said, Lincoln was a dick. No amount of history could disqualify that. He was a dick, but he DID manage to hold the USA together which was the aim of the North.

Every war sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives (except maybe the ones the Greeks and Aztecs waged against themselves) and unfortunate by product of men with deadly things in their hands trying to kill each other I'm afraid.
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