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May 9, 2010
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"omfg its ANIMAL ABUSE to feed baby chickens to snakes!"

:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 9, 2010
NO.

On YouTube there's a lot of videos showing snakes eating their prey. One of them in particular shows a chick getting eaten alive by a python. The uploader, JonahVore, has the camera up close where all the details can be seen.

So lo and behold, among the more stupid comments I saw in the legion of commenters crying out about how it's sick and that it was animal abuse for a snake to eat its prey.

How the hell is it animal abuse? Chickens aren't going endangered, THERE IS NOTHING ABUSIVE ABOUT IT. If you don't have the balls (or ovaries) to watch your snake eat live prey (and you DO have to watch it in case the mouse bites the snake and harms it) then get a snake that can eat frozen mice. JonahVore is either the biggest animal sadist on YouTube or one of YouTube's biggest troll.

Or both. There's something a little strange about a guy who posts gruesome videos of animals being eaten up close (and some of his videos consist of just filming the caged food, as though building up the unnerve), but hey, it's the circle of life. The reptiles don't care about showing off how they kill their prey, they just want to eat.

NOT ANIMAL ABUSE.

tl;dr: Hippies
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Devious Comments

:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
It is animal abuse.

Most of these stupid videos are done for the person's entertainment, you often hear giggling/cheering as the prey animal is in misery.

Chickens aren't going endangered, THERE IS NOTHING ABUSIVE ABOUT IT.

How is this relevant?

There's something a little strange about a guy who posts gruesome videos of animals being eaten up close (and some of his videos consist of just filming the caged food, as though building up the unnerve), but hey, it's the circle of life.

Of course there is - people like that are psychopaths, deriving pleasure from the pain they cause other living creatures. It isn't the "circle of life", it's of a douchebag with two animals in captivity who finds it necessary to film this shit for their own entertainment. It's not the snake's fault, it is the human's. Your first mistake was not to make the distinction between the wild and captivity - in the wild it is all fair game, no hold barred. But in an enclosure, the person has a choice of how to go about feeding.

And posting videos on YT of completely set-up situations of animals fighting to the death for entertainment strikes me as being sadistic. I wonder what your reaction would be if it were another animal instead?
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:iconbabushka-nipples:
Babushka-Nipples Featured By Owner May 11, 2010
lolol rabid rodent lover. :lol:
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:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 12, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
lolol rabid uneducated Nazi-wannabe. :lol:
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:iconbabushka-nipples:
Babushka-Nipples Featured By Owner May 12, 2010
HAHA ORIGHUNUL INSULT
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 12, 2010
Although we're having that debate, I lol'd at this comment.
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 11, 2010
No, it's not animal abuse. Just because this Vorephile does it because he enjoys getting a hard-on does not make the chick's life any more miserable. It certainly makes the snake's life miserable to be eating both a rat and chick (from what I saw in the video), but it's the circle of life as far as I'm concerned. If you don't like snakes eating live prey then do not get one that likes to eat live prey.

Most of these stupid videos are done for the person's entertainment, you often hear giggling/cheering as the prey animal is in misery.

Which I don't agree with. It's sadistic. But it's not animal abuse, it's people filming it because they, again, either get some weird fetish from it or because they like to piss people off by filming live prey get eaten.

But in an enclosure, the person has a choice of how to go about feeding.

Not if the snake is picky about its food. Some can be trained to eat dead food, others can't. The person has a choice of what snake to get.
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:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
No, it's not animal abuse. Just because this Vorephile does it because he enjoys getting a hard-on does not make the chick's life any more miserable.

Why isn't it animal abuse though? You say it isn't but you don't give reasons. All the signs are there mate - that the person gets a hard on is besides the point. The fact that he created a situation to induce fear/pain to another animal made said animal more miserable. He could have humanely killed it beforehand and there would be no issue at all, aside from this obvious fetish crap.

Deliberately inducing pain to an animal is abuse, "feeder" animal or not. The person causes the chick to die horribly when it is not necessary. It is no different, in principle, to any other instances of animal abuse where people can avoid inflicting cruelty.


Which I don't agree with. It's sadistic. But it's not animal abuse, it's people filming it because they, again, either get some weird fetish from it or because they like to piss people off by filming live prey get eaten.


How can the action be sadistic if it is not a form of abuse? You might want to redefine your definition of abuse there. So the guy pisses other people off by being a cruel twat? Well, there you go. Enough said.

The point is, the animal was subjected to an amount of fear/pain that was not necessary at all. The person got pleasure out of it. This is abuse, it is a no-brainer. I'm looking at the event on its own merits, not by what species of animal is involved.

Not if the snake is picky about its food.

Then they're not trying hard enough.
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 12, 2010
He could have humanely killed it beforehand and there would be no issue at all

Do you know that? Do you know for sure if his snake would be willing to eat carrion? I understand the video claimed that all predators will scavenge, but not all snakes will eat dead things.

The fact that he created a situation to induce fear/pain to another animal made said animal more miserable.

So just because it is in captivity means it's animal abuse, then? When it's out in the wild it's perfectly all right but here, it's suddenly a big deal?

Now you said that in the wild it's "fair game", and the animal perhaps has a chance to escape. That's true, but the animal would be feeling terror and pain regardless of whether it was in the wild or not. Or that it's animal abuse because the owner has a choice of inflicting misery on the prey.

So then, again, get a new snake that will not eat the prey alive. Get one that constricts it or is known to actually eat frozen mice. I have had plenty of snakes that will refuse frozen mice (one in particular actually did accept it for a while, but then would not accept any more dead ones).

I'm not denying that killing prey beforehand isn't humane, because it is. The few snakes I have gotten that will swallow prey alive is pretty revolting to watch, at least for me, but it was necessary for that particular snake. Most of the other snakes I had squeezed its prey to death or accepted frozen mice. So why am I saying this? Because I know, for the umpteenth time, there are quite a number of snakes that will simply not eat dead things.

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:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 12, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Do you know that? Do you know for sure if his snake would be willing to eat carrion? I understand the video claimed that all predators will scavenge, but not all snakes will eat dead things.

Because the person responsible for the video did it for shits and giggles, thus there was an ulterior motive to it all. Snakes can be converted to pre-killed, you just have to put in a little effort. The main issue here though is that he derived pleasure from another animal's pain, regardless whether the snake eats live or dead.

So just because it is in captivity means it's animal abuse, then? When it's out in the wild it's perfectly all right but here, it's suddenly a big deal?

That's right. Because we have no control over what happens in the wild, but while we have animals in captivity, we have the responsibility to ensure that they don't suffer unnecessarily. Animals in the wild are just following their natural instincts, there's no malice at all. Whereas it is something different in a controlled environment, with a human being who knows what he/she is doing and understands the implications of it.

Now you said that in the wild it's "fair game", and the animal perhaps has a chance to escape. That's true, but the animal would be feeling terror and pain regardless of whether it was in the wild or not. Or that it's animal abuse because the owner has a choice of inflicting misery on the prey.

Your last statement is exactly my point. Whether the animal will be in agony or not in the wild on its own is not relevant, because that has nothing to do with our own actions as human beings. We have the capacity to decide how to treat those under our care, sure a wild mouse will also suffer from being eaten alive but it's a world away from deliberately introducing a domesticated animal for the same thing.

So then, again, get a new snake that will not eat the prey alive.

I don't have any intention of owning one.

The few snakes I have gotten that will swallow prey alive is pretty revolting to watch, at least for me, but it was necessary for that particular snake. Most of the other snakes I had squeezed its prey to death or accepted frozen mice. So why am I saying this? Because I know, for the umpteenth time, there are quite a number of snakes that will simply not eat dead things.

Fair enough. There are many guides on how to convert picky snakes to pre-killed if you're interested, it's a win for all parties IMO.

Though my main beef is that the person induced suffering to the animal and posted in on YT as entertainment. That kind of thing has always shit me - it's sadistic and if this guy were living in Australia, he'd be prosecuted by the RSPCA.
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 12, 2010
There are many guides on how to convert picky snakes to pre-killed if you're interested, it's a win for all parties IMO.

I no longer own any snakes, but I would definitely be interested in that. I do much perfer having snakes eat pre-killed prey than the other option. :iconpukeplz:
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:icondazza1008:
dazza1008 Featured By Owner May 11, 2010
and you DO have to watch it in case the mouse bites the snake and harms it

What a failsnake.
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:iconthe-lone-whale:
the-lone-whale Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
wtf?
people also feed snakes mice and rats. its completely normal
maybe this snake just perfers baby chicks
plus we eat chickens all the time
ppl need to chill
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:iconvalgaror:
Valgaror Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Dunno if anyone has said it yet, but.. guy's got "vore" in his username, I think there's some ulterior motive in posting those particular videos.
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:iconshininginthedarkness:
I used to volunteer at this nature/wild animal rescue type place. They got in chicks for free to feed to the animals (raptors and snakes) because chicken farmers kill all their male chicks at one day of age and would just throw them away otherwise. It's hilarious that people would get upset over one chick.
However, the snake's owner is pretty fucking retarded too, so it's lose, all around.
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:iconazza9:
Azza9 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Chick as in a Chicken chick right? Wow irresponsible much little hard beaks pecking the poor snakes insides. Snakes are built for rodents and dead ones they have killed themselves by venom or constriction (they might go a bird in the wild if they are desperate to feed). Pre killed mice should be good enough you can coax them to eat dead prey if you know what you are doing. This is why you need a reptile license to own a snake where I live. To own one you have to do a short but in depth course on reptile care as they seem quite difficult to look after.
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:iconshininginthedarkness:
Uh, I didn't mean to bold that all XD
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:iconshininginthedarkness:
Snakes are built for rodents? REALLY? Snakes that eat birds are desperate? REALLY? :rofl:
I'm sorry, there are a few certain species this might be true for, and captive snakes might be heavily imprinted to domestic rodents and be reluctant to switch to birds, but the vast majority of wild snakes that will go for warm-blooded prey LOVE birds. Some of your more terrestrial boids might be an exception, but it's probably through lack of ability to reach birds.
MOST wild snakes don't eat warm blooded animals at all, but they're generally not available in the trade for that reason.
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:iconsebastopolgoose:
sebastopolgoose Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Okay, on the one hand, it's just nature, the snake needs to eat.

On the other... it's sort of in poor taste to post a video like that online, especially with all the... close ups... I doubt the chick had to be alive in the first place, it's much easier for both the snake and, um, the viewers for it to be pre-killed. So I don't know whether or not I would call it animal abuse.
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Well although I hate defending Vorephiles, that particular python probably needs live prey to eat. Snakes can be surprisingly picky.
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:iconsebastopolgoose:
sebastopolgoose Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Hmmm... maybe you're right. They certainly can be picky! But if not... it is dangerous for the snake.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO POST A VIDEO OF IT ON YOUTUBE
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Correction, it doesn't mean you have to post a disturbing video of it on YouTube. People post this all the time, but not as graphic and disturbing as this Vorephile fuckface does.
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:iconsebastopolgoose:
sebastopolgoose Featured By Owner May 11, 2010
Exactly.
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:icondeathbal101:
Deathbal101 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
But they can. :B
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:iconsebastopolgoose:
sebastopolgoose Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Goddamn internet :iconffffplz:
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:iconstarrypawz:
starrypawz Featured By Owner May 10, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I've always been told that in the UK at least it is in fact illegal or at least considered cruelty to feed live prey.
I suppose however if said snake or whatever refused to eat dead mice/chicks for whatever reason then I'd understand as horrible it seems that they'd need to feed them live (something like that happened with my tutor's snake she ended up giving it away, she told us that it ate a improperly defrosted rat, therw it up and then refused to eat 'dead feed' again)

It's not considered very safe for the snake to eat live prey incase the prey attacks the snake and when there is there is the dead feed option, and most snakes will willingly eat that why run the risk of the snake getting injured?
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 10, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Both methods run the risk of harming the snake. Live has the risk of injury, while frozen runs the risk of improperly thawed food. Probably the safest method is taking the mouse out of the feeder tank, killing it, and giving it to the snake,
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:iconstarrypawz:
starrypawz Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
True, I suppose in an ideal world that would be how things would work.
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's...Actually how a lot of people do it..
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:iconstarrypawz:
starrypawz Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
What I mean was more along the lines of

'in a perfect world all people who owned snakes would be able to feed them on live food, they'd be able to do so responsibly (such as stunning or killing said mouse before hand to prevent injury to the snake) and people would be less likley to scream 'omg animal abuuuuse!' (that I doubt because I know people who think it's 'cruel' to feed live feed insects to lizards)'
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Lol. It's very hard to get lizards to eat dead crickets since they're such visual animals.
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:iconstarrypawz:
starrypawz Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Yup and unlike mice/chicks they do not last long after being killed so it wouldn't work.

Those 'omg feeding live bugs iss cruel and nasssty' people always seem to end up on the animal care course. Trust me it makes 'reptile feeding' so fun as they tend to go 'agh! eww I'm not touching maggots' (cause mealworms are secretleymaggots) or 'agh it's a cricket!' and don't even get me started on the reaction to the dead chicks (for the ferrets) and the frozen pinkies (for some of the lizards)and of course the frozen mice (for the snakes) in the prep room freezer in the animal centre.

I think myself, a freind and a few other class members are the only ones in my group at least that will willingly do live feed.
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
What's hilarious is that insects don't have a developed enough nervous system to feel pain. I have a wildcaught legless lizard that I captured almost two years ago. I feed him crickets and grasshoppers..And I recently discovered that he'll eat june bugs. Long story short, grasshoppers get their jumping legs removed and june bugs get mutilated so that they're just a body. It's mainly for his safety. I could see the legs catching his head just right and damaging his eyes.
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(1 Reply)
:icondeathbal101:
Deathbal101 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
How many people do you really think have the balls to kill a mouse
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 10, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Quite a lot. It's much cheaper to raise your own than to go out and buy them.
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:icondeathbal101:
Deathbal101 Featured By Owner May 11, 2010
No, no, no.


How many people do you think have the will to kill a mouse.
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
...A lot. Most snake forums have numerous stickies on the various ways of killing mice.
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:icondeathbal101:
Deathbal101 Featured By Owner May 11, 2010
No, not the means or knowledge.

THE BALLS

Most people I know would not do that.
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:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 12, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
I think it's because they're squeamish about physically hitting another fellow mammal, and the mess that may come from it. And the fact that it's all so up close and personal, down to the point where they can what they are doing.

That's why using something like a CO2 chamber suddenly gives them balls. No physical trauma involved, no mess, you don't have to see it and there's peace of mind that you're not going to miss and cause it more misery because the mouse will just fall asleep and die peacefully.
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 11, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
...Again. A lot of people. They're not going to let a $10,000 snake starve simply because they're not a fan of killing mice.

There's two main methods. Cervical dislocation, a.k.a popping the skull off the top vertebrae; generally isn't done to adult rats due to their bones being stronger.

Whacking, which is basically hitting the mouse's head on something hard to that it's basically brain dead (preferable to only need one hit).

C02 gas. Basically causes the mouse to pass out and die due to lack of oxygen. This tends to be the preferred method.
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:icon3wyl:
3wyl Featured By Owner May 10, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
Mmmm... Survival of the fittest. :drool:
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:iconthehardcorekitty:
TheHardcoreKitty Featured By Owner May 9, 2010
I have to feed my snake mice and watch it eat in case the mouse attacks her. It's irritating getting the," Baww you're so cruel!!! D:" when all I'm doing is feeding another animal what it has to eat.

Filming it is weird though D:
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:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 12, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Can't your snake eat prekilled instead? Watching the event isn't going to prevent multiple bites.

People are saying "Baww you're so cruel!!!" because the prey animal is being subjected to fear/pain when it's not really necessary. I do not really understand how this vital component is being ignored - yes, you have responsibility to take care of the snake but also the other animal. That it will be fed to the snake is besides the point, if it's under your control then why not eliminate unnecessary suffering to it?
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:iconthehardcorekitty:
TheHardcoreKitty Featured By Owner May 12, 2010
I've already tried feeding her prekilled but she doesn't eat it. I already feel bad enough having to get her live animals, but I wouldn't get rid of her or anything because of that
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:iconlechensko:
Lechensko Featured By Owner May 12, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Fair enough.
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Filming is weird.

Vore. ._.
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:iconraptorgirl:
RaptorGirl Featured By Owner May 10, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Not really. I've filmed my snake and lizard eating. I don't get off on it. I just find the various evolutionary mechanisms for eating to be interesting.
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:iconnapoleon-bonaparte7:
Napoleon-Bonaparte7 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
No, that's fine. Filming them eating is not weird.

Filiming it because you're Vore or because you take pleasure in watching animals die and get a hard-on is weird.
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:icondeathbal101:
Deathbal101 Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
how can someone be vore
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:iconthehardcorekitty:
TheHardcoreKitty Featured By Owner May 10, 2010
Yuck vore DX
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