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December 30, 2012
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Trust your feelings

:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Alright, so I often see stuff like "I felt this was good" coming from writer trying to figure out where they are skillwise.

Do you judge your own work on instinct?

Why?

Do you think this sounds like a crock of shit?

Why? (also, +15 for answering what crocks of shit sound like without being gross.)
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Devious Comments

:iconrnrsentinelda:
RnRSentinelDA Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013  Student General Artist
Perhaps what they meant by, "I think this is good", really is them measuring how much pleasure and joy the author feels when looking back on it. They might not be truly defining their work on the basis of their skill or how well it was written but instead they are commenting on how they "feel" about it or how satisfied with it they are. That is the instinct aspect.

When I write, I try to read from the reader's point of view. Meaning I have to feel like I just picked up the work that I have no clue about and I all have to go is the title and maybe the summary. As the writer, I make sure that what ever I have written is presented in such a way that someone who first reads it will comprehend and understand what is happening. You can have a great idea planned out in your mind, and it makes sense to you, but if you don't structure it in a coherent way to readers, it falls flat.
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:iconanwaarsaleh:
anwaarsaleh Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I try to judge my work not only by instinct but sometimes I try to imagine what the readers will feel like when they read my work. It's true that when writing I don't always notice the mistakes I do whether it was grammar, characters, or plot but I change what I can and give it to someone to give me his/her feedback :)
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:iconpoetboi:
PoetBoi Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
If I think it sounds good, I stick with it. I dont change it because people have trouble understanding it, but usually that isn't a problem.
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:icontakatake:
Takatake Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
well..when story comes to me, sometimes i think i know instantly it's good, but to make sure i ask other ppl for opinion because its very important to know what they do/dont like and for me its more fun to see critiques than praises.
i dont get what u mean by crock of shit..what sounds? :DDDD ba dum tssssss
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:nod:

There's an English phrase, 'that sounds like a crock of shit to me'--so basically it's lies or BS.
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:icontakatake:
Takatake Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
oh ok
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Every time this thread bubbles to the surface, I think it's Obi-Wan talking to Luke.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That is exactly what I was aiming for.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
:iconfuckyeaplz:
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:iconsydnerella:
sydnerella Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
It depends. If it's an area of writing that I am reasonably confident with (such as description), then I feel I'm reasonably qualified to go with what "feels" right (and I suppose this would mimic what you refer to as an instinct). And even then, that's no excuse to not examine those areas just as carefully as every other component of writing.

If someone critiques an area I know I need work on, such as plot, then I will take any help I can get. I know I will need to work harder because it's not something that comes naturally to me.

It benefits a writer to have confidence in one area, and I like to think that those who read widely and spend a lot of their time writing develop something they feel they have an instinct for. It equally benefits a writer to know what isn't coming naturally to them.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, I'd call that an instinct :P

Sounds good to me!
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:iconmars-walker:
Mars-Walker Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nothing, and I mean gets done when I take my stuff so seriously as to 'judge', it (in other words, I can't stand the sight of my art when I'm 100% objective).

Nah, I try and let it go with the flow. I honestly prefer to let others give me the criticisms.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeeeah I have that problem with visual art :B

Do you end up being surprised by what they say, though?
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:iconmars-walker:
Mars-Walker Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sometimes; there is always something that you overlook.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
True!
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:iconprosaix:
prosaix Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013
I don't judge my own work. That's what publishers are for... Nice trick question. :evileye:
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Since when did you send things to publishers, am I seeing a whole hidden side of you?! :stinkeye:
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:iconprosaix:
prosaix Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013
Don't try to change the topic! That was totes a trick question to identify established writers from the peasants. :icondivaplz:
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'll stop changing the topic when you stop giving away my secrets! :iconfliphairplz:
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There's no such thing as pure instinct.
The thing people address as 'instinct' is often unconscious knowledge. People know some stuff is good, because they have seen stuff like that work before, or they've read enough to know what catches the audience and what not. They just can't put it to words what it is they like, and therefore refer to it as "something they feel"
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
OhSNAP! Breaking all of what's been said so far, I love it.

Here's a question though, what if you're a total writer noob? Where is the experience coming from?
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well... what many people forget is that writing is only part of the experience. A large part of creating a good plot is set in storytelling and simply evaluating things that happen in your life. This evaluation might come from reading books or comics, seeing movies, or even from real life experiences. Almost everything in life has a story in it. Get to know enough stories, and you will unconsciously already know what makes a good story and what not. Writing is only a way to bring the message across.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Though aren't there differences between reading/observing as a layperson and reading/observing for the sake of writing?
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I don't really know. Writing is about giving a certain shape to what you've observed. It's true that you have to pay a certain attention to detail and have to be able to imagine what people would think/do in a certain situation... but the observation part is mostly the same. It's what basically everybody does in real life, especially when involved in certain social situations.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hmmm. I dunno, I think in the last few years I've observed stuff in order to be able to describe it in words, instead of just experiencing it. Kind of like how city photographers start framing shots as they walk through the streets.
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There's a thin line between observation and experience. For settings and landscapes, you can just observe those. But when it comes to emotions and such, it's better to experience them :)
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Ha, truth :P
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:icondaghrgenzeen:
Daghrgenzeen Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Whenever *I* like something, others don't like it; when I think something is shit, others seem to like it. :lol: So ... yeah, I do judge my own work, and rather heavily too.... which can sometimes be also very discouraging.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:lmao: That's a real mess! Figure out what's appealing to them that isn't appealing to you? Maybe you're holding some stuff to a higher standard than others.

Oh noooo, just remember you have to practice writing to get better at it :faint:
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:icondaghrgenzeen:
Daghrgenzeen Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
It is indeed. :lol:
I've been trying to figure it out for some years now. :lol: Need to try harder I guess. XD
Sundays are dedicated to reading and writing, and whenever else I get the urge to write. :P Heh. Even when it feels like I'm writing crap, I still do it. XD
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh maaan.

Hm, maybe also just reading more stuff and seeing where you are in relation to it. This problem may be too strange to solve :stinkeye:
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:icondaghrgenzeen:
Daghrgenzeen Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah I've been reading more genres recently than just what I used to read since I was a kid, but... I don't know. :lol: I'll just keep on reading and writing. Haha.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Good enough!
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:iconshadowedacolyte:
ShadowedAcolyte Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013
I never feel like something is good. I'm so self-destructingly negative about my own work that when I read it I see mounting piles of flaws. When I post something, it's only because I've managed to edit out the most glaring examples.

In fact, when I do write something and thing, "this is good, yeah" I right away know that it is TERRIBLE and should be burned.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:lol: so how ever do you finish anything?
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:iconshadowedacolyte:
ShadowedAcolyte Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013
I'm also a tad bit masochistic. So...it sometimes works out well.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:lol:
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:iconthe-monoblos:
The-Monoblos Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Professional Writer
I don't trust myself to be good at anything. I'm a huge bleeding pessimist I am. That's usually my instinct. Then, when I come online and post it and I get such a warm community I kind of look at myself, shoot my instinct with a shotgun, and then just play up to the lovely people. As to where I am skill wise I do think as I've got more experience I've became better - I've learnt significantly more jargon over the years as well and that probably adds to my plugging myself here. Sorry, that wasn't supposed to come out.

Anywaaay, as I was saying; actually you know what being subtle and trying to ask others where you are is a great confidence booster. It's a really sneaky trick to make you feel good, to continue pushing you in your writing towards a general, or specific, goal in whatever.

As crock's of shit go it's a fairly nice crock of shit which, even if we don't realize it (unless, like me, you often look for weird metaphorical meanings, pragmatics and other "technical data"/"deep seated analysis") why, because it means well. Whenever something means well in a society, at least so far as I've witnessed, we all give the person a huge pat on the back regardless of whatever comes next. We then, after looking at the journal/blog/comment/request, actually decide to look at whatever it is in question and then (if we're particularly charitable) we'll do a critique and give a deep seated analysis over something which we thought previously had no meaning.

I get it though - we all want to know what we're like, what we can do and so forth: it's public entity. Whether it's a deep seated crock of shit or not we all have short term goals and/or long term goals, working out where are we is like we're setting ourselves an exam to see if we've hit our own targets. But ... it also makes us prime targets to our own worst enemies - ourselves (and our friends too). Why this too? Because, as I said right at the start, some of us just don't trust ourselves, so we don't trust anyone who says anything and then we all wonder where we're at. So go on, next time you see someone's feelings give them a large hug and then go about your business knowing that it doesn't make any difference in the grand design of public entity.

Psyche - it means a lot to hear good things and this will always add to our self evaluation brain cells when they surely whir away.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Releases are said to be a good thing, oh well!

Haha, depends on how much you need the confidence vs a realistic idea of where you are, though. I was told I could write at 14, and believe me, that's a load of shit. I didn't just need pruning shears, I needed a hatchet.

So perhaps it's not as much a crock of shit when it's shared with a lot of other people? That's extra gross, -15,000! Anyway, I don't tie my self-worth to the quality of my mad arts (although I don't generally want to be seen anywhere next to my drawings), so I think it can be a problem.
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:iconthe-monoblos:
The-Monoblos Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Professional Writer
I've been thinking a little more about it actually.

It's the sort of crock of shit, I think, that can be related to a freshly dug ditch (with optional spikes) that we're actually stood in and, to get out of, we're actually digging straight down as well. I think that because so often we mean well we're slightly held back or hold ourselves back in what we're saying - "softening the blow" I believe we call it. We can't do anything about it and, because I think the internet tries to be a community (especially here on dA) it's something that will last for a long time not just one instance. I know this is going to earn me -15,000 each time this could conceivably be simply seen and we might set up a daily debit account and add some interest to -15,000 for this.

I think that, so often as well, the thing is we're being too nice, trying too hard to humanize "harsher" critiques (in my mind what is 'harsh' anyway?) that as a result everyone slowly becomes like a lethargic blob; gorged on a turkey dinner and not able to stand up and help your family with the washing up - which in turn means you have sit with your remaining family and wear those cheap christmas cracker hats/crowns things and listening to all the terrible jokes. Maybe that's too much of a christmas analysis but (and this is just my opinion) people are getting slightly more lethargic about critique and about what to do with it - just overlooking it and such. Being the way how my mind works I honestly can't help but feel that this sort of feeling is in some way attached to what I've said up top.

Don't get me wrong there are upsides to softening the blow and giving off optimistic outlooks. People like to write when they're feeling good about what they're writing - when they know that people are actually reading it for one, some even actually critiquing it. Other appreciative comments that otherwise aren't critique are welcome additions to this pile of jumbled up thoughts. Without optimism we probably wouldn't have tens of thousands of pieces (of all art forms) that had any sort of debate over worthy critiquey-ness happen.

Maybe this is just me but I think we could do with something to show everyone 10,000 sides of their pieces. We want to be happy; I want people to be happy - but we also need to know where we stand. These outlooks, quite honestly are two separate entities - maybe they need to be shown as two separate entities? Maybe we need a separate place and time for one and the other, to iterate things perhaps? What would be interesting is if a lot of people looked at things seperately - maybe two critiques or something along those lines (1: How does this something invoke emotional response 'Both happy OR sad for that matter' and 2: A much more technical 'How does your writing stand up?' kind of critique). Emotion, and technicality, though linked dozens of times over, are still seperate from each other overall are they not?
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Haaaah. So really more an abyss than anything else.

I could believe that. It's hard to be motivated to critique when you're not only trying to think through the work, you're also trying to make sure no feelings are hurt. Fucking draining.

Honestly I expect people to realise that a harsh critique is telling them 'this is worth fixing' and that's something they should feel good about. There's optimism and then there's just straight up bawwing, which is like...hi, not your internet therapist.

I try to split the two :B
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:icontwipplestoast:
twipplestoast Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013   Writer
I always tend to think my work as horrible. There again, there's that old saying, "The harshest critic is yourself," which is most true for me. But people should rely too much on their own thoughts and feelings. That's what beta readers (ie your friends xD) are for.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:nod:
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:iconriseandbe:
RiseandBe Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Outside of technicality (grammar, form, vocabulary, etc) I think 'feeling' something is good is only going to get you so far. Most writers are more inclined to like other writers whose styles are similar bc there is a difference between technically good and moving. At least in the realm of poetry. Something can be technically good, but lack a certain emotion or quality that one might seek out. I often feel my most personal pieces are really good, but do not get as strong a reaction to them as I do to pieces that are more generic (emotionally, not technically or creatively). So I edit and judge my own work based on technicality. Not on how I feel about it. It doesn't change the pieces I am most connected to, but it certainly gives me that ability to be more objective and honest with myself regarding their base quality.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That's fair. :nod: Poetry drives me up the wall because it's so hard to quantify.
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:iconriseandbe:
RiseandBe Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Understandable.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Making poetry quantifiable is only my list of life goals, along with 'eradicate all plant life' and 'conquer outer space.'
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:iconriseandbe:
RiseandBe Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Those are some goals! I especially like the last one.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:giggle:
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:iconajb-2k3:
ajb-2k3 Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
A little back ground, I'm 33 and have always suffered with english spelling and grammar (English is my native language) I have no idea what any of this noun/pronoun nonsense is even though I have done my english GCSE exam twice (fist time I got FF, second time I got CC!) as I just cannot grasp these things.

However I have a great imagination and have loads of story's to tell. My entry's into a 2013 writing competition have both be rewritten 3 times (each) because I just wasn't happy with the flow of them (thank you American friend for showing me this.)
These are now done and ready to be posted.

I often write when I'm drunk (as it reduces the filters in the brain that filter good from bad ideas) then read through the notes the next day to find the useful stuff. (you would be surprised what comes out of a drinking night (most films on dvd!)) Note by choice, and I try to avoid it!!!

I'm A follower of 2 great saying's
If your not happy with it, then don't expect anyone else.
If your not prepared to drink it fresh from the bottle, don't cook with it! (translation of japanese saying).

This probably contradicts my previous comments but ...........

See you in port soon Airship Pilots!
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