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December 25, 2012
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Put on your big kid pants, writer noobs.

:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2012  Professional Writer
:iconrageplz:

1. You are in a creative field. You can't get better without feedback. Hell, even in non-creative fields, you're not going to get better without feedback. So why do you think you're so special that you're going to burst into the dA writing community and just be like totally awesome without any kind of critique?
1a. Why are you whining about getting "negative" feedback?
1b. Why do you think the feedback you're getting is "negative" anyway?

2. You are in a PUBLIC forum. Everything you put up here is visible to the entire Internets, not to mention the regulars who are in here every day and, in many cases, have been visiting the lit forums for years. Why are you surprised/angry when you get multiple responses -- sometimes opposing your viewpoint -- to your threads?
2a. Why aren't you lurking before you post?
2b. Why aren't you checking out who's who?

3. Nobody is out to get you. 99% of the people who are here responding to your work OR your forum thread are here because they care or are interested in what you have to say and want to ENGAGE you. Yes, sometimes this means arguments or debates, but it's not about being a jerk, it's about critique and discussion.
3a. Get over yourselves. Stop whining.
3b. Why are you feeling so defensive?
3c. We really don't care how old (or young) you are.
3c-i. ...as long as you treat people with respect.

4. EVERYONE has something to learn. I don't care if you're Joe Noob or Stephen King. We all have things to learn and weaknesses and places we can improve our craft. That's why we're here. So when you're ready to put your learning hat on, and you're ready to not only throw down your opinion but to OPEN YOUR BRAIN AND LISTEN, that's when these forums will be useful to you.
4a. Your feelings aren't going to help your craft.


THOUGHTS?

(PS, yes you may air out your grievances about feeling like someone was mean to you here. NO you may not name names. That makes you a jerk.)
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Devious Comments

:iconmeinesehnsucht:
MeineSehnsucht Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013   Writer
I think there are as much complaints about complaints about feedback as there are complaints about feedback. Or something. Anywayz if people keep whining tell them to stop whining and stuff.
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:iconevilgiggles1993:
EvilGiggles1993 Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
You have made several valid points. If you like giving feedback to people I have the perfect group for that [link].
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
I don't really have a lot of time to give critique other than in the occasional chat vent or to the critique partners I already have. That wasn't really the point of this thread.
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:iconevilgiggles1993:
EvilGiggles1993 Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
It was just an idea. :) I know some people that are looking for feedback (including myself) and you seemed really level headed. It's all good though.
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:iconmaxwellsmaart:
MaxwellSmaart Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
Sometimes the truth hurts, but I agree one hundred percent with you. This is an art sharing website, after all. As long as the comment is constructive and I can take something from it, I don't care how well you do (or don't) sugarcoat it. I think it's fair to say a lot of us here on dA are here to improve, anyway. Noobs be noobin'.
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:iconsydnerella:
sydnerella Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   Writer
Sometimes I wonder if a lot of the people who get really upset about criticism are even ready to be posting their work at all. Sometimes, I wonder if that's hurting them as a writer.

When I started writing, I never showed my work to anyone. I'm so glad I didn't have unlimited access to internet then, or else I may have been pretty upset by any constructive criticism. I'm thankful that I took time to somewhat develop myself as a writer before I started looking to others for advice. Even when I did start posting at the beginning of high school, I'll admit that feedback pointing out flaws hurt me. At least by then I had some level of maturity not to get angry and put my own feelings about someone's feedback in perspective. Most importantly, I had already decided I enjoyed writing and had developed some area of confidence in it. Those who are just getting started and putting their very first pieces up for critique probably don't have either yet, so feedback becomes the motivator rather than developing as a writer.

You're right - we're in a public forum here. Everything we post to dA is going to be for others to see. There are tons of things I've written that I would never let anyone see. Either those things are crap and I've abandoned them for whatever reason, or they are so personal that there is no point in opening them up to criticism.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are posting what I'm guessing falls into one of the categories above. They also aren't expecting criticism to begin with, and they haven't developed the maturity to handle feedback better.
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:iconchris000:
Chris000 Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I actually rarely get really critical criticism. I love constructive criticism when I get it. I love to hear it because learning from what I did wrong and improving upon it makes me a better writer! Getting those ones that are only one line long saying things like 'OMG so cool' don't help aside from that brief shot in the arm of a warm and tingly feeling. They let me show people are reading, but is it really going to help me get better? Probably not.

Nobody's out to get me because nobody's out to get me. In the six years that I have been writing, I haven't had any real major complaints in the way I've been writing my recent stories. In my opinion, the characters are believable, have flaws, some of them major as of late, and a world that responds to their actions.

I just don't get reviews as often as I would like. I don't try to include a lot of gimmicks. I just want to tell a story about otherwise normal people in abnormal situations.

Reviews aren't lifeblood, but damned if they don't help!
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:iconhotaru-suzume:
Hotaru-Suzume Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   General Artist
Why do lurking and knowing who's who matter?
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
It gives you a better idea of what kind of advice people give, what sort of tone folks generally take, who the regulars are and who might be trolling.
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:iconhotaru-suzume:
Hotaru-Suzume Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013   General Artist
Fair enough. Thanks.
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:iconvoaz-kzrhovb:
Voaz-Kzrhovb Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I take anything I'm given to work with.
I made the big mistake of thinking I was good at writing and was trolled for two weeks straight. I now have grown such a bitter callous that no one can troll me anymore. I take their useless abusive comment, find anything relevant in what they say and thrn fix it. Hahaha. Their argument and or insult is now not relevant because I got rid if whatever it was that they were being a dickhead about. They now have nothing to back them and I then either hide the comment or at least block the person if they are persistent for twentyfour hours.

I like getting helpful feedback which is balanced with good and bad points, especially when the focus is on the negative and how to fix it as opposed to useless outright flattery... although it does feel nice to think I'm good at it SOMETIMES :shrug:
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
tbh... I don't dislike getting critique. I just hate it when people get impolite.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Writer
Define impolite.
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Being downright insulting without explaining anything
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Professional Writer
Well if someone outright said "Hey, your first draft is pretty bad because you have no plot" would that be insulting? Because I think it's the opening of a great discussion.
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
If that's the beginning of a discussion, then it's okay. If it's the whole critique, then it's not.
But most of the time, people like that don't even bother to give a reason. They just tell you "it's pretty bad"
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
If they tell you "it's pretty bad," you can ask "why?" and "how can I fix it?"
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:icondamaimikaz:
DamaiMikaz Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It often depends on the way it's told. "It's bad" is still a pretty polite way of addressing such a thing. It's getting worse if people start to curse, tell me that I will never improve, or do personal insults that have nothing to do with my artwork in the first place. And yes, I've seen a lot of that, and I've received quite a deal of that myself.

On the internet there are many people that just insult you because they feel bad about their selves, and see the anonymous internet as some kind of release for the frustrations that they have in real life. They don't tell you you're bad because they want you to improve. They tell you so, because they feel miserable, and they want you to feel so as well. I'm well willing to discuss with people that have good intentions (those that want me to improve), but I refuse to discuss with idiots that only insult me for the sake of their own pleasure. Discussing with idiots like that is just a waste of time.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
Well, I think approaching critique with the perception that people want to insult you or are intentionally being mean isn't going to get you very far. Instead, even when someone gives you feedback in an upalatable manner, try approaching it as if they're trying to help, even if you feel insulted.
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(1 Reply)
:iconstay-sick:
stay-sick Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
To me, that's fine, that's critique. What would be impolite/insulting is someone saying "Hey, your first draft is shit."
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
But it might be shit. Sometimes you have to hear stuff like that in order to get better. Given, someone who says "your first draft is shit" should probably offer you some points on how to move in the right direction.
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:iconstay-sick:
stay-sick Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Well yeah, like you say a rookie writer shouldn't expect to waltz onto the scene and be haled as a literary genius. It's very competitive and there will always be people who are streaks ahead in terms of ability. And firm, harsh critique does make the writer/artist wake up and think about what they're doing. But being impolite/brusque/rude for the sake of it? That's just someone being a moody arse :)
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Writer
How can you tell if someone is being rude for the sake of it?
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(1 Reply)
:iconwordeea:
wordeea Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
i take any feedback on here with huge grain of salt. i have a handful of peeps and by handful i mean less than 5 - that i highly trust to be cold and objective towards what i write, if i ask an opinion about it. if i don't, they shut up. works great for us.

then there are the people who just like my style. i loves them. great for my ego, but not super to get better.

then there are those how actually have something interesting to say, knowledge even, which isn't hard to have more knowledge than me, i am a baby at writing; but their delivery sucks ass, so i just dismiss it.

then there are those who think they know, but they don't. they are easy to recognise, they throw words like "cliché" around a lot.

and then there are those who know and who know how to say it constructively. those people are few and far between, but i cherish every word they have to say about my work and i have been able to improve because of them.

visiting someone's page is usually telling and from there i will decide how seriously i will take the criticism.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Professional Writer
Just because someone doesn't sugarcoat critique doesn't mean you shouldn't take what they have to say seriously.
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:iconwordeea:
wordeea Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
agreed.

i don't mean sugarcoating here. there is a difference between being hard but fair and an just a jerk who thinks highly of themselves.

sugarcoating doesn't lead to anything; but respect will.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Professional Writer
Right. I guess what I'm saying is that what you perceive as someone being a jerk might be someone with a lot of good information just being blunt.
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:iconwordeea:
wordeea Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
i get that. i can be pretty blunt.

ultimately, dismissing any critque, is jerky in itself anyway; so i'll stop digging my grave right here ;)
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Professional Writer
GOOD. :D
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:iconwordeea:
wordeea Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
however i will say this (yeah yeah, i know :D ) there is a difference between blunt and fair and being plain mean.

plain mean i will always dismiss. if that makes me a jerk. well, i am a jerk ;)
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:iconbruggush:
Bruggush Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
I just started posting my poems on Deviant Art because I want to grow as a writer. I WANT and ask for brutally honest critiques. If my stuff is sub par, I want to know that it is, and why. If my stuff could use some work and improvements, I want to know where to improve. Whether the comments are positive, or negative, I personally can learn a lot from every response no matter what it is I'm doing, and I think everyone can take something positive from any negative comment if they look hard enough.

I've added two poems so far to Deviant Art and I've yet to have any critiques but if anyone would like to help out with that, I'm willing to take any and all advice into consideration. I'm honestly just trying to improve as a writer and poet, and if that means taking some harsh criticism, I'm open for that. :D
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:iconyourdoom243:
yourdoom243 Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Professional Writer
I come to the literature section of DA to "unleash my inner goddess".
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
That sounds like the most recent Oglaf strip.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Awesome, another fellow reader!

Though I've no idea why I would be surprised you read it, too :P
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Especially since my own writing isn't exactly G-rated.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, seriously!
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I got linked to it from Questionable Content, which I've been reading for years.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I think I caught it from Girls With Slingshots. There are about eight options for whom it might've been, though.
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:iconsubstanceabuse:
substanceabuse Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
My favorite way to critique is by being a jerk. You're taking the piss out of it for me. DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

Seriously, though, posting a rant in the Lit forums about how people need to HARDEN THE FUCK UP is like telling a 5 year old he can't have any more popsicles.

"No more popsicles son, you've had 2 already."
"But dad, that isn't fair! You're being mean to me and popsicles are good for me and I WANT MORE POPSICLES!"
"NO son, you've had too much sugar already!"
"FINE!" *throws something*
.
.
.
.
"Daddy I'm sorry I threw stuff...I promise I'll be better...
.
.
.
can I have just one more popsicle?"
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Professional Writer
My faith in humanity always gets in the way of, like, everything.
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:iconsubstanceabuse:
substanceabuse Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
It is worth having, at times, it's just that it can be exhausting. Not becoming jaded at the fruitlessness of it can be quite the task. I do admire optimism though, could probably use a bit more of it myself. I can't speak too loudly as I haven't been around much in quite some time, it's just that my knee-jerk reaction is to be a downer. :)

It's what I do.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Professional Writer
Well, welcome back. And here is a GIANT SMILEY FACE. Or, you know, a regular sized one, but with extra smiles behind it: :)
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:iconfallingstarz5:
Fallingstarz5 Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Student General Artist
I take criticism as best I can. If someone doesn't like it and gives it a bad rating, that's there opinion, and I don't want to waste my time and their time trying to make them love it.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Professional Writer
But if they give you feedback saying that you should improve something, it wouldn't be a waste of your time to work on it, would it?
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:iconfallingstarz5:
Fallingstarz5 Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Student General Artist
True, very true.
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:iconikerot:
Ikerot Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Student Writer
I agree on this. I wrote a critique to this one person along with somebody else and we both had our mind set on the same thing. The plot was wonky and there were a lot of spelling errors. That person could've taken it well, fix her mistake, and make it better. Did she do that? Nope. She deleted her story, quit the critism group (where she asked for people to critique it) and reuploaded it ._.
She does not understand how much effort I put into that and it's just... gone.

To be honest, I actually still get angry and scared over negative feedbacks xD but I don't exactly overreact about it. I just let it sink in for a couple of hours or days, then I go back to my story and fix it. :\ I really don't like it when people can't take critiques. You should be expecting somebody to send negative feedback when you post up your story. I know that for sure, especially with my terrible grammar and all xP <-- English learner
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:iconb-nicolet:
b-nicoleT Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Professional Writer
I agree with you here. No matter what field you're in it's going to be very hard to improve without outside feedback. It's sometimes very hard to spot your own mistakes. Sometimes you need someone else to come in and offer some advice.

I love getting constructive criticism on my writing. I know that I'm also a bit sensitive, however, so sometimes I probably take offense when no offense was meant. That's why, when that happens, I try to wait at least a couple hours before responding to the critique so I can go back and see things for what they really are. 99.99% of the time no offense was meant.

Still, I think that people shouldn't assume that you need to be harsh to be honest. Don't sugar coat things, of course, and never lie, but it's possible to tell the truth without being incredibly blunt. I would much rather have someone who didn't like my writing explain to me exactly why they don't like it and what I could do to improve it, as opposed to them just telling me "This was horrible. You're such a noob". That was a bad example, but I hope it got the point across.

Again, this may just be me being overly sensitive. I've never really been able to understand people who are really blunt. I'm an honest person and am honest in my critiques, but I guess that me and the blunt people just have very different ways of expressing our honesty. My methods are probably better in some situations, and their's are probably better in others. It just depends on who is receiving the critique.

But, in the end, I would much rather receive one blunt, seemingly offensive critique that offers valid suggestions on how to improve, than a hundred "OMG's thish ish soooooo gud!" lies. If I wanted constant praise then I wouldn't be posting my work online.
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:iconneednknow:
NeednKnow Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013
I don't get it... I haven't really seen anyone whining or being defensive. Except for that long convo in page 2, I cannot remember seeing noobs. I thought people shared their opinions and experiences, and no one seemed like they were degrading anyone else, and they respected differences and moved on. I don't know, man........... I assumed what you wrote is common knowledge to anyone on the Net. Guess not. I see sarcasm, though, tons of it. Then again, everything is sarcasm to me.

Name shaming is not allowed? ._. No fun at all.
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:iconperibyss:
Peribyss Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I'd rather people say what they have to say about my art honestly and truly than not at all. Whatever it is, I'd like to hear it. You know, Voltaire and all that.
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:iconneomerlin:
neomerlin Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Student Writer
I disagree with point 3. Nobody ever has a debate or argument around here! :)
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