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December 1, 2012
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Writers, Increase Your Budgets.

:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
Because Duotrope is going subscription-based.

Rather than discussing the odds of getting paid for poetry versus prose, let's do something creative--what two items would you send them to make a goddamned point at how annoying this is?

I'd send them an empty bottle of astroglide and `zebrazebrazebra's destructive Chinese cat.
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Devious Comments

:iconfyoot:
fyoot Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012   Writer
Why can't they just sell their memberlist to shady scamming self-pub scheme recruiters to make money, then cash the cheque and retire? :shrug:
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Professional
That's probably, legit, the best marketing idea for them I've heard all week.
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:iconthebrassglass:
TheBrassGlass Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012  Professional General Artist
One of those cardboard tubes when you get to the end of a toilet paper roll, and a mostly finished can of cheez whiz.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012  Professional
the mostly-finished can of cheez whiz would make my mother commit suicide. she loves that shit.
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:iconsnapperz:
Snapperz Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012   Writer
I would send them a turd and a lighter. They can do the rest of the work themselves.

:no: I am not happy. I already pay $12/mo for IMDBpro -- which imo, is actually worth it, because if I get work through there, I get can get paid like 10 grand, as opposed to $5.00 for a short story publication. The good news is I only send out cover letters to publishers about once every six months or so, so I wouldn't mind paying for a one-off month. (I suppose that screws with the submission tracker though -- how does that work when the submission runs out? It just locks you out of your account?)
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:iconraspil:
raspil Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012   Writer
do what i did -- go in and make a favorites list of the sites that would accept your work. do it fast, you have what, a month? then you have those sites (and their affiliates) and no need for duotrope. i think i'm on the E's of their alpha list. time to get busy.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
time for an all-nighter and some espresso drip, i think.
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:iconlucy-merriman:
Lucy-Merriman Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student General Artist
Oh for the love of balls.

Guess I'm going back to Writer's Market. Which, by the way, is free at the library, even if it is, you know, a book. And I guess New Pages isn't that bad.

But Duotrope is so nice, and I was only just figuring out how to use their search tools in a non-stupid way. And the email updates! Oh well :( .

Look, why don't they just do the dA model? Put really annoying ads on the site, and then people will subscribe to make them stop? I mean, that's why I subscribe here. Or the tumblr model, where the main services are free, and then "bonus" services are pay-as-you-go?

I guess I'd send them a mirror so they could look at their life, look at their choices. And then, you know, some Great Lakes Christmas Ale, because I don't want them to feel too bad, and 'tis the season after all.
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:iconzebrazebrazebra:
zebrazebrazebra Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
The problem with annoying advertisements is that nearly everyone knows how to use an adblocker these days. That was my first thought, too, but it's not something that would be effective in practice. Sadly.
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:iconlucy-merriman:
Lucy-Merriman Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student General Artist
Hmm. Maybe some kind of special bonus content for subscribers. I just keep thinking, you know, why do I subscribe to dA? And it boils down to, I like journal skins and I hate ads.

I dunno, ads seem to work for facebook.
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:iconzebrazebrazebra:
zebrazebrazebra Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
Yeah, special bonus content is where I think it has to go. I can't even remember why I subscribe to dA now, except that I never pay for my own memberships and it feels really weird without it.

This is true. But Facebook has an insanely large membership compared to Duotrope, many of whom won't be as tech-savvy and capable of adblocking as your average social media infused writer. Don't get me wrong, I still think it'd be way better than this. But I can definitely predict their arguments against it.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
A tube of half-used lube and The Great American Challenge.

Anyway, why doesn't a group of people split this? I can't imagine they'll be tracking IPs.
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:iconsadisticicecream:
SadisticIceCream Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012   Writer
I think the only problem here is that if a lot of people use the submissions tracker, shit's going to get messy.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think whoever wants to use that tracker can chip in extra for it. I wouldn't bother. :B
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:iconsadisticicecream:
SadisticIceCream Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012   Writer
Fair enough. :nod:
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
fuck you and your smrt.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:eyes: bby
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
o bb o bb
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
bb pls bb moar
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
I'm similar to Zebra in my stance.

I *have* given to duotrope. Usually I give a few times a year, when I actually have a bit of money. Which is almost never. I can barely afford my subscription to Publisher's Marketplace, and if I have to choose between the two, I'm choosing PM, even though it's more expensive. It has information I can't get anywhere else.

Duotrope, unfortunately, does not have information I can't get anywhere else, other than the stats, and like Zebra said, if they go subscription only, those are going to be ridiculously skewed.

I think they SHOULD charge something if it's what they need to keep the site going. But I think it should be more like, if you pay, you get extras. If you don't, you get fewer cool features. Mags/People who pay could, say, do a detailed search, list themes and deadlines, check out editor interviews etc. Mags/People who don't pay can look at bare bones stats, report their subs, etc.

Two things I would give duotrope: a social media expert, because they're going to need it to deal with the influx of "@Duotrope NOOOOOOES" and a kitten because I love them even though they're being silly right now.
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:iconlucy-merriman:
Lucy-Merriman Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student General Artist
What is Publisher's Marketplace? I've never heard of it, is it expensive?
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
It's 20 dollars a month and it provides insight into books that are being sold, by whom (agented or by the author), to whom (pubishers), when, rights and subrights, etc. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're already in the process of looking for an agent/publisher, because otherwise the information isn't terribly useful.
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:iconlucy-merriman:
Lucy-Merriman Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student General Artist
Okay. That doesn't sound like what I need right now; I'm really just looking for lit magazines and anthologies that accept short work and poetry. But I'll keep it in mind for the future.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
Aww. Yeah kittens are always key.
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:iconpinkymccoversong:
PinkyMcCoversong Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
Always!
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:iconzebrazebrazebra:
zebrazebrazebra Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
Here's where I stand. I've contributed to Duotrope in the past--not much, but I have. And I always felt that it was a service that I'd be glad to pay for, since I use it every single day and can't imagine working without it. So from that point of view, I don't really mind it going paid.

However.

$50 is a dangerous amount to set it at, given that basically nothing is going to remain free. I'd pay $20 or even $25 happily; I will pay $50 unhappily. But what really scares me is the potential for that to scare off the vast majority of the user base, thereby fucking up the stats which make the service worth using.

It also seems strange to move straight to a model like this without considering other avenues (of course, perhaps they have and just didn't tell us about it.) There's a petition going around asking Duotrope to charge markets rather than users; I don't think this is an ideal solution either, but I do think charging both markets and users less and making the same amount of money is a much better start. Or leave basics such as the submission tracker and charge for premium services, as other people have suggested. Editor interviews are definitely something that could go paid.

Anyway, for now this is all conjecture. I'll cough up my $50 on the 1st, but if the quality of the stats start dropping I will be the first to leave inna drove. And then I'll stop submitting to magazines, because fuck knows how to find them anywhere else.

Two things I would give Duotrope: a marketing executive, to sort this mess out, and a raincoat, to protect them from all the shit that's about to come their way.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I bet they're gonna change it in three months.
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:iconraspil:
raspil Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012   Writer
netflix changed their tune hella fast once they were told they effed up...
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Netflix straight out said they just wanted a bigger profit margin though. Duotrope's saying they can't afford anything else.
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:iconraspil:
raspil Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012   Writer
what they say and what the truth is are two different things.

/trust no one
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
haha, I can't imagine duotrope was making a ton of money though. writers are broke-ass motherfuckers.
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:iconraspil:
raspil Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012   Writer
well, we are. ;-)
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:P
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:iconzebrazebrazebra:
zebrazebrazebra Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
And this is why I'm paranoid about paying for the full year. I might just get a month and see how things play out.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Or you could get like five people to go in on it with you. Submissions tracker...guess someone could pay extra for that.
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:iconcailinliath:
CailinLiath Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
$50 isn't feasible for me at this juncture, I feel. I'll be one of those absent stats.

However as it is a very useful tool, I would be willing, I think, to pay $35 happily. I just have to remember to back up all my data before it's inaccessible.
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:iconzebrazebrazebra:
zebrazebrazebra Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
Yeah, I'm fully aware that $50 is only feasible for me because I am a disgusting freeloader. It's not going to work for the vast majority of their users.
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:iconcassildra:
Cassildra Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional Writer
FUCKBALLS.
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:iconsadisticicecream:
SadisticIceCream Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012   Writer
:iconsadtruthplz:
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
:iconfblikeplz:
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:icondamonwakes:
DamonWakes Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student Writer
Yikes. :|

Initially I found myself wishing that I'd taken the opportunity to send my work to more places before now, but seeing that they won't even let non-subscribers use their submissions tracker, I'm almost glad I didn't. I'll be sure to jot down a note of when I sent what before this comes into effect, though.

I guess I would send Duotrope a crisp sheet of printer paper and half a lemon. They'd know what to do.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
I'm sincerely, for my sanity's sake, hoping you want them to papercut the everloving hell out of their ass and then enema with some lemonjuice.
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:icondamonwakes:
DamonWakes Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Student Writer
:iconteheplz: I'll never tell.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Professional
:iconlazehumpplz: EYYYY SEXY LADY
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:iconcailinliath:
CailinLiath Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
needs moar submission tracker.
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:iconcailinliath:
CailinLiath Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
Yeah well if I have to track on my own spreadsheet anyway, at least for personal use, I might as well go with the free info Internet and much cheaper mag subscription.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
Also lubricants.
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:iconcailinliath:
CailinLiath Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
Wow. Arg. That is not even a phase out transition. That is practically useless without a subscription.
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:icontiganusi:
tiganusi Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Professional
It's like if dA only let you use the shoutboard and see the manga gallery unless you paid $50 a year.
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