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December 25, 2012
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Porn vs Art

:icongksart:
GKSArt Dec 25, 2012
If this is wrong forum, let me know. First time posting here...

So, I have this ongoing discussion with another Photographer here on deviantART about this subject, and it's not leading anywhere. So I would like to start a general discussion on it among my watchers to see if my perception of this is plain wrong, or simply misguided.

When I shoot images, I know there is a fine line between glamour and pornography. It's all a matter of poses and how to make the women express themselves. In glamour, its all about being sexy and alluring, to make men want to see more of you. And its about the boobs and the asses as well. In porn, its about something else. There, the women are completely void of any mystery, and they just show everything they got. They make no fuss about it, and pridefully shows off every inch of their naked body, with or without a man or a toy. I find that very displeasing. To me, a woman needs to have a little mystery. They don't NEED to show everything. And again, its all about angles and poses.

Reason why I want to start a discussion is that many people here have an impression that porn is OK to do on deviantART. It's a place of art, and I know a couple girls in France that thinks pornography is art. Well guess what, it's not. It never was and never will be. Those who like it do it of course, but they too make no fuss about that. Porn is about raw instinct, the need to have sex. Plain and simple. It's nothing else.

Like any other man, of course I have watched porn in my days. It's pretty much unavoidable unless you are a mormon or a deeply religious man or woman. The internet is riddled with it, and it blows up in your face at every chance it gets. But this is about deviantART and their allowance of anything. The only thing they don't allow is penetration, either by men or toys. Other than that, its free game. Which is fine of course.

Now, this photographer I have this argument with, has a portfolio here that looks like something that any guy with a camera can shoot. It lack everything that is basic photography by photographers. And the one time he actually produced something worthy, he starts this whole discussion because I hurt his feelings somehow. I think there is a line that has to be drawn to separate porn from glamour to be honest. To me, glamour means that they don't make the girls spread out, that they have a bit of mystery to them. Putting images online that shows a girl laying on a bed with her legs spread, genitals first to the camera, was never art and it never will be. And to be honest, I find it degrading to the models. When I shoot, I try to make images the girls would want to keep. So far, no complaint, if one disregards my learning process... lol.

I would like to know what you guys think. Its an open discussion, just hit it with your honest opinions, and have a discussion about it. I am very curious if my views are flawed or not :)
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Devious Comments

:iconmapper3:
mapper3 Dec 31, 2012  Student General Artist
If you can fap to it, it's porn. :iconmkayplz:
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:iconankh-ascendant:
Ankh-Ascendant Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
My honest opinion is that porn vs art is a very subjective argument, and what anyone draws/shoots/writes is no one else's business. If it obeys the rules and TOS, then it's allowed and if it offends your artistic sensibilities, look away. Trying to influence what someone else creates will almost never work, and I don't think there's a morality police around here...
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:iconatlantech:
Atlantech Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
porn and erotic art are not the same thing IMO. erotic art is tasteful, porn is not.
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:iconsoriyns-knight:
Soriyns-Knight Dec 31, 2012  Student General Artist
I defiantly believe that porn can be artistic, the thing about posting porn on deviant art is there are certain guidelines that DA has that need to be followed for any piece that is posted onto the website. This isn't that big of a deal considering how many places on the net that allow all sorts of pornographic artwork to be posted. The problem is that this only accounts for artwork that is blatantly pornographic, as in that was the artist intend and it shows, but then there's artwork that may not have been intended by the artist to be pornographic or at least not completely. Unfortunately there really isn't a set in stone rules of what makes something pornographic, but if the contents is considered inappropriate by the standards of the website that it's being posted on, there's not much you can do but throw your hands up, or try to contest it, which will most likely end up being nothing but a hassle.
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:iconzingam:
Zingam Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I would say that your photography is practically porn. You have just women there, no play with light and shadow, no scenery, no special composition, no make-up, no costumes, no interesting poses... stefangrosjeans' is art, walking on the edge... Other photographers here do actually art (with naked people). I cannot come up with a name right now from my mind and I am too lazy to look for immediately.

I think deviantart should be about art only. Everybody who wants to display naked people in hard or soft poses should go somewhere else. And I mean here not just photographers but also people who draw huge boobs without anything artistic and stuff or pose 3D models in Poser. :D
Also I hate seeing deviantart used as Facebook too. Not everybody is a great artist but some people just abuse the site and pollute it with senseless crap.

"Putting images online that shows a girl laying on a bed with her legs spread, genitals first to the camera, was never art and it never will be. And to be honest, I find it degrading to the models. "

Not necessarily!!! It all depends on the context, how you presented. Art is an intuition, not a definition. :)

Also what does "degrading" mean? In some cultures shooting the face of a woman would be considered degrading :D
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:iconmaxspider72:
maxspider72 Dec 30, 2012   Traditional Artist
Many would be asking the same question of abstract art. I think anything anyone deliberately puts thought into creating is art, whether it be sketching, painting, photography, film, music, dancing or acting.

Whether or not it's good or appropriate is another question. That simply falls to the opinion of the veiwer and is subject to the rules of whichever house your art is displayed in.

If you find some art distasteful for whatever reason, be it nudity or graphic violence or frightening images, it's a simple matter to turn away. No one is forced into looking. DA, forgot example, has filters. You don't have to see the mature art if you choose not to.

That being said, I do think it is marked "mature" for a reason and should be treated as such. Mature art on DA should be marked as such. Erotic art maybe doesn't belong at the local art fair. Being art doesn't necessarily make something less pornographic. Being pornographic doesn't have to mean it's not art. :spidey:
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:iconeev11:
eev11 Dec 28, 2012  Student Digital Artist
This is a difficult one.. I don't like pieces that leave absolutely nothing to the imagination because that immediatly gives me a negative opinion about the lady, on the other hand I really like nude photography but that has nothing to do with pornography at all.. it is an admiration of shapes, muscles, fat, bones, skin and other things that define the human figure.

So I'd say: sexy is okay but try to do it with as much clothes as you can, sexappeal is not nudity, and nudity should not be pornography but purity.
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:iconredmarlin:
I'd be interested to hear from you, then, what the difference between erotic art and porn is.
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:iconnonecansee:
This I actually may agree with.
Artists sell their work and if it's erotic art, well, is it also porn?

Haha, this is curious indeed! It's like asking what the difference is between insulting someone and being frank and honest.
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:icongyr633:
Gyr633 Dec 28, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
I believe porn can be art. Sex is a part of the human experience, and is something that happens all the time, every day. There is nothing wrong with sex. The human body is also art. There is nothing wrong, in my opinion, of photographing the human body in its raw state, without having to cover up.
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