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November 24, 2012
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is there such a thing as fake art?

:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
i think some types of art are initially better than another type.

for example, real painting takes much more work and effort than digital painting. this makes it more of an art form.

and sure i am a digital painter myself but i just do it for fun, and i think that's really what it's more like.

like sure with photography you point and click a button, you dont stand there an paint for a long time like a real artist.

i could also say writers are real artist because they take like 3 years to write a book, but, then almost anyone can write so not sure about this one. what do you guys think?
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:iconmattcombsart:
MattCombsArt Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
"real painting takes much more work and effort than digital painting. this makes it more of an art form."

Doing a quality traditional painting and a quality digital painting... are hard in their own ways. Each one is different, requiring different techniques to produce something. Theyre all different tools. Its like saying "painting with brushes takes more work and effort then airbrushing, so its a better art form" Your comparing two different tools. Art is hard no matter what tool you use. It may be easy to mess around with art, but to challenge yourself and take your art to a professional level, Is hard no matter what medium your using.

The amount of time working on something is irrelevant. Each piece requires a different amount of time to create. Their is no set time with art. Sometimes it takes a long time sometimes is doesnt. Its art.
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:iconsoriyns-knight:
Soriyns-Knight Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student General Artist
Art has such a broad definition that I don't think it's possible to classify something as real or fake, because literally anything can be considered artistic. I could take a crayon and scribble on my wall for a bit and someone, somewhere will think it's a masterpiece.
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:iconpringlesaddict99:
pringlesaddict99 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think art is creating something new or representing something that already exists from a different perspective, no matter what the media.

Some photography doesn't take effort, and I don't think of it as art myself, I just find it amazing. But you have probably seen some wildlife photos, some people almost kill themselves (not literally) to get a good shot of wild animals. I admire photos of frogs the most. I couldn't take a good photo of a sleeping cat, imagine taking a photo of a frog on a leaf from up close? Those things are fast as hell.
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:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
The reason I started considering photography a real art is because I learned the term "sketching the light". "photography" actually comes from the term "painting light". It really is what you're doing. You have to adjust how the light hits, effects and paint your subject with light in order to get a good photo. All of the camera settings (ISO, apeture, shutter) and everything having to do with "getting a good photo" has to do with adjusting and manipulating the light (aside form composition).
Just thought I'd share heehee.
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:iconpringlesaddict99:
pringlesaddict99 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I know, I still don't consider it art. As I said, I just find it amazing :D
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:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
How come? I doesn't bother me, just curious. I don't find sloppy abstracts art, although a lot of people do. Guess we all have our things.
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:iconpringlesaddict99:
pringlesaddict99 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it and I'm amazed by it sometimes, I just don't think of it as art on the same level as painting. Photography is very limited to... well, things that actually exist.
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:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
Unless you get heavy into photo manipulation or filters I guess.

I'm a hobbyist photographer, but I actually agree with you to some degree. It's very very difficult to be an "artist" with photography. Although we are painting with light, most (including myself) are more of documenters rather then artistic. I consider for myself photography to be more of a fantastic documentory skill then anything.

I guess the kind photography "art" you're looking for are surrealist photographers. They don't limit themselves to reality. It's not just a photoshop skill because a lot of film photographers were able to do the same thing. For example, my uncle did a double exposure. He took a photo of a seascape and a seperate one of a ship. He exposed them on the same film strip so it looked like the ship was floating in the sky.

Some you might enjoy [link]
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:iconpringlesaddict99:
pringlesaddict99 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Awesome!
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:iconkami-ato:
Kami-Ato Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Art is hard to describe. It's mainly a personal matter if someone believes one of their pieces is artwork or not. People who observe other people's art can't exactly say that "This isn't Art". It's what the creator believes in and because he/she chooses to share their art with you or others doesn't give you the right to say that this isn't art. It's your own opinion for whose Art you think is better than others but please don't say that one form of art is harder than others.
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:iconvineris:
Vineris Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
"for example, real painting takes much more work and effort than digital painting. this makes it more of an art form."

No. This is false, which you can see for yourself with a little bit of thought.

First off, people who are bad at a skill have to spend much more effort than people who are good at a skill. Let's take two artists who have studied for the same number of years. One seems to learn painting much easier than the other. They spend 6 weeks on a painting, while the other artist must spend 6 months on a similar quality painting. If effort = "more real" art, then you are saying that it is more artistic to be a plodder who has to work at everything than someone who is smart and quick and can make beautiful paintings easily. Which is really silly.

Second off, you can make art arbitrarily difficult. You say that painting is harder than digital art so it's more of an art form. Well, painting with your toes is more difficult than painting with your hands and painting with your toes while upside down in the dark is more difficult yet. Why aren't our revered masters all upside-down-toe-painters? If more effort = "more real" art why don't we think pointilist painters, who must place thousands of tiny dots on a painting to be more wonderful than alla prima painters who finish a painting in one sitting? Many people will easily say that the pointilist painting is much more impressive, but then they will go out and buy something quite simple to actually hang on their wall. Why? Because effort doesn't translate directly into quality or beauty or meaning and it's a mistake to think that it does.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
look its not just the amount of work theres also how it looks when it is finished. read my other posts.
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:iconvineris:
Vineris Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
That's why I said *similar quality* painting in the first example. The "how it looks" argument doesn't apply because they are assumed to look similar. But thanks for playing.
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:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
You don't think this looks amazing finished? The person who did this took 50 hours to complete it. You're saying this didn't take effort?
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
im not saying it doesnt take effort or that it doesnt look amazing, but it isnt art, it looks like an advertisement for hair pins or gloves.
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:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
art[ ahrt ]
noun
1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

There we go, debate solved. The definition of art has no specific medium to qualify it as art.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
that is true, except the part about significance. hence digital art photography and etc.. arent art because they are not that signifiacnt.

i mean can you name one photo you learn about in school? but you learn about the mona lisa and michaelangelo's sculptures.
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:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
Wow you really have no clue about art do you? Ansel Adams is just one of the many photographers whose images have been studied in many art colleges (including mine). We studied his work.

Try educating yourself [link]
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
i mean in regular school not art school.
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(2 Replies)
:iconblackrosekane89:
Blackrosekane89 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
Is Illastrat (think thats the username) using another account? Lol.

Either that or a copycat.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
who's illastrat? links?
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:iconphoenixleo:
phoenixleo Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Poor bait. :no: What's with the rise in poor idiotic threads :crying:
:iconsnapeleavesplz:
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:iconponderhope:
PonderHope Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student General Artist
Objection here, my friend.

I personally do not paint digitally ( I'm much more of a traditional artist) but that doesn't mean that it isn't art. I don't really enjoy digital art as much as I enjoy traditional art, and I feel that art looks more authentic when created by means of traditional mediums ( acrylic, gouache, watercolor, oil, etc...) but I don't dismiss digital as not being art. It is art, and there's MANY talented digital artists here on dA. Digital art takes as much knowledge as traditional art does, color theory, composition, art history, tone, etc. You can sit at a canvas or panel for hours with a bunch of tubes of acrylic paint and create a painting that is amazing to look at, and you can sit at a computer for hours and create an amazing piece in Adobe Illustrator. You can slob a dot of acrylic paint on a canvas, but you can take hours and maybe even days and create a beautiful end result. You can draw a line in a cheap painting program or you can spend hours or days, refining and creating a masterpiece in Illustrator.

And photography definitely takes effort. Finding a good location, getting the correct lighting, getting the right angle, etc.

I'd say you should be a bit more open-minded about what you consider "art", you're becoming dangerously close to being anti anti art and Stuckist.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
i think the reasons you enjoy traditional more is because deep down in your soul you know it is art, while with digital it is a just for fun pretty picture. thats why digital cant be real art, it doesnt get to you like traditional does.
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:iconponderhope:
PonderHope Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student General Artist
That may be true for myself, but maybe not for others. We're talking about MYSELF here. Traditional art gets to me, digital doesn't. I'm not the only human being on this planet, others may prefer digital over traditional, others may like both!
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:iconmrbonecracker:
MrBonecracker Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
what do you guys think?

thatīs what I think: this is a poor troll-attempt :shrug:
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:iconcatluvr2:
catluvr2 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Another thing. I think that what's in your scraps are more like art than what you have in your gallery.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
well my gallery is my main character from the stories in my scraps.
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:iconglori305:
Glori305 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Art is, in my opinion, about evoking an emotion in the audience.

So how long it takes to make, how much skill it took, how long it took you to learn that skill, how easy, or how difficult it is to make is less important that the emotion it evokes.

I personally find many photographs amazing, and if you take up photography, you discover how much more than "point and click" goes into spotting the right shot, and lining it up, and knowing your lighting and your angle.

Digital can be just as emotion evoking as traditional painting, and I have seen traditional painting done just as quickly as digital, by and experienced artist.

The only things I consider "fake" art. Tracing, no skill involved, it is passing off someone else's art as your own. Flat out stealing and passing off someone else's art as your own.
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:iconphilliewig:
Philliewig Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
:iconclapplz:
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:iconcatluvr2:
catluvr2 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
The only thing that is fake art is stolen art.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
i agree with you stolen is totally fake art. first thing someone said that makes sense here!
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:iconsomedaysakuhin:
SomedaySakuhin Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
Doesn't really seem like you spent too much time with the kinds of art you are saying are "less art".

There's a huge difference between creating a simple piece of photography by just making a snap shot of whatever is around you or planning a complex concept, organizing all the stuff like location, model and whatnot and turning that into an artwork.
Drawing a simple digital doodle also isn't the same as creating a detailled, high resolution artwork with difficult light and shadow settings.
Yes, mostly anybody in developed learns how to write basically but it's a whole different aspect of how to write in an excellent way that can really cause people to feel something.

I hope you understand what I try to say. ^^'
Maybe learnining about what is behind creating all those art forms other than traditional paintings would help you understand them better.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
just cuz you go somewhere special and bring stuff doesnt make it art.
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:iconsomedaysakuhin:
SomedaySakuhin Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
Wow, thanks for that really detailed answer... Not.

It's not just about bringing stuff somewhere, it's about thinking about what to express and everything that belongs to that.
But seeing your other replies here, it's useless discussing something like that with you anyway...
Kay thanks, I prefer spending my weekend more productively. :3
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:iconphilliewig:
Philliewig Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Anyone can paint, anyone can take a picture, and anyone can put down lines and color with a mouse and keyboard. It takes knowledge of composition, color theory, and that inherant sense of harmony to make it art. Art isn't confined to any media. You have to keep in mind that, in the modern world, art isn't restricted to the traditional sense and notion anymore. We have things like performance art, postmodernism, hyperrealism, etc. It's all art.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
just because someone calls it art doesnt make it art.
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:iconphilliewig:
Philliewig Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Not true. If you look back at art history, there are many cases where pieces are declared to not be art by the public (Impressionists, Van Gogh, Pollack, etc.). It doesn't matter whether it's called art or not, as it's still art. Art is any expression of aesthetics.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
history = boring.

you are dumb. history doesnt matter, its just a bunch of things old guys said because they want to feel important. well its in the past now and no one cares so it doesnt matter.

art is no any expression, only artistic ones, like painting, sculptures like michealangelo, etc. i still can't decide if writing counts or not.

but anyways. yeah history doesnt matter because things change new stuff happens. we used to think the earth was flat in history but guess what? we were wrong. so history doesnt matter.
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:iconphilliewig:
Philliewig Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Screencapped. Thank you for your contribution.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
no problem.
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:iconlittlesardines:
LittleSardines Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Filmographer
I disagree with you almost completely. First off - digital artwork requires quite a bit of knowledge of color theory, composition, lighting, and anatomy, just like "real" painting does. To me, it's the success-fulness of those elements and how well the painting/photograph communicates to it's audience that makes it real art.
Photography requires knowledge of lighting and composition and contrast, and generally a good understanding of how to use a camera as a tool for creating art - like how a painter uses a brush to make art. Have you seen artwork created through double exposing film and all the early photography centered around telling fantastical stories or creating unrealistic scenes (like these for example: [link])?
Anyhoo, I feel like I've already taken too much time to answer this - I think you need to open up your mind a little about your definition of art. :shrug:
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
just because you need to know stuff to do it doesnt make it art.
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:iconlittlesardines:
LittleSardines Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Filmographer
?? So if I grab a paintbrush and just slab some paint down on a piece of paper it's art. But if I take time and effort to set up a photograph that portrays something unreal it's not, because ultimately all I did was click a button. That's some sound logic.
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:iconphilliewig:
Philliewig Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Knowledge isn't what makes it art, rather, it's the use of said knowledge in the creation and presentation of the piece.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
all that matters is what it looks like at the end, then people can tell if it is art or not. anyone can tell photography and digital art arent art by looking at them.
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:iconlittlesardines:
LittleSardines Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Filmographer
lol, sorry? People have taken photographs or painted digital art that looks like a traditional painting, is that art if you can't tell the difference?
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
how you make it also determines if it is art. theres a lot that goes in to what makes it art not just one thing ya know.
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:iconlittlesardines:
LittleSardines Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Filmographer
lol. please list these things that go into creating art for me.
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:iconheaven-spawn:
heaven-spawn Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
thats just too much to list man.
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