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November 22, 2012
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1px binary lines in Paint Tool Sai?

:iconiridescentstardust:
IridescentStardust Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hey! So I use Paint Tool Sai sometimes. I was wondering if it's even possible to get crisp, workable lines from the Curve Tool in 1px form?



The closest I can get is 0.7 brush size, with 2 Density, with the layer mode set to Binary Color.



Still, the lines come out missing a pixel here or there. If I bump up the density or brush size, they become too thick and blocky.

I'd really love to use the Curve tool for faster lining with pixel art and digital dolls, but it doesn't seem like Paint Tool Sai wants to play nice. Is there maybe a setting that might help force it to stay 1px width? Right now I don't even mind that Binary Mode forces it to be black and white, as long as I can get it 1px!
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Devious Comments

:iconblazingbluey:
BlazingBluey Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I use the binary tool with the icon size 50x50
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:iconsoniabane:
SoniaBane Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
You have to mess with the layer settings. There should be a setting called "Binary Color" under Mode.
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:icongothicaammy:
GothicaAmmy Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Ask TheUltimateAngel she used Sai to pixel in she can really help you out when it comes to pixel in it.
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:iconmooveeluver:
mooveeluver Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012
Looks like these guys are hiring all kinds of artists.

A collaborative art website for creating and producing scripts...interesting

(www)moviesindeed(dot)(com)/hiring
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:iconcerashekus:
Cerashekus Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012
.. Binary tool is the only pixel tool on SAI ; v ;
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:iconanimatedcatastrophe:
animatedCatastrophe Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'd suggest paint.net! I rarely do pixel work, but when I do that's what I use, since it's got layers and, most importantly for me, I can use the arrow keys to move over one pixel. Its freeware, so perhaps give it a go? c:
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:iconfionacreates:
FionaCreates Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Professional General Artist
Use Gimp. :P

I'm so helpful.
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:iconpygmynoodles:
pygmynoodles Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Student General Artist
I don't really know if it's possible. I just do my lines in Paint and then color the doll in SAI since the only way to have guaranteed 1px lines is to use the binary tool with a tablet. :V
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:iconiridescentstardust:
IridescentStardust Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Dangit! I wish the curve tool in MSPaint wasn't so crazy to use @___@ *breaks down crying* How do you manage it with a tablet? I have a tablet that I don't use too often .__. I might try that out
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:iconpygmynoodles:
pygmynoodles Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Student General Artist
It's actually got an algorithm to make it smooth, so it doesn't come out all nasty like the pencil tool in Paint. :'D
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:iconiridescentstardust:
IridescentStardust Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
*PUKES SPARKLES* WHERE IS THE BUTTON FOR IT or does it just detect when you plug in your tablet?
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:iconpygmynoodles:
pygmynoodles Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012  Student General Artist
[link]
(And that was with my mouse! X'D)
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:iconaurorapaws:
AuroraPaws Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You have to download a driver to get pressure sensitivity, I believe
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:iconsandtrap:
Sandtrap Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012
I frankly think that Sai is too "Digital painting" and not "Electronic graphics tool" enough to use for pixel-by-pixel edits.

Just like Photoshop is not optimal for digital painting, and neither Sai nor Photoshop should ever even be considered for pure vector work while Illustrator still exists... Sai just doesn't come across as having the needlepoint precision I'd want for this kind of work. Frankly, that's the same reason I'd use a mouse for pixel art.

You're welcome to call me a heretic, but only because I'm the first person to jump on that kind of accusation.
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:iconiridescentstardust:
IridescentStardust Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, that's true :/ It's a shame!! A lot of people are fine with the bezier tool in MSPaint, but I could never grasp it, and stick with the straight line tool. But it takes a while and kind of puts me to sleep xD
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:iconsandtrap:
Sandtrap Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012
I can imagine. Frankly, I think Photoshop has the best balance of precision and "scorched earth" without invasive, horrible issues, for this kind of thing.
Ah well.
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think you are looking at the wrong issue.

You can seek perfection all you want but even if you think you can get it in reality you can't, because you need the skills.

Imagine a guy working to restore a truck, but most of the ruck is rusted away. So right now he is picking out the fuzzy dice he wants to hang on the mirror.
People tend to do things like that and not realize it because their dreams make them blind to the facts.

Artist do that with their art. There are better things they need to improve on but they worry about the quality. You can have perfect lines on hands that look deformed.
Most of that is because artist on here has their art up for people to look at and comment. They want their art to look it's best.

I saw your art and it look pretty good because most of the anatomy look right. But the fingers tells me everything you draw was created making the anatomy look even better, but the fingers and joint angles needs a lot of work.

If you noticed I never commented on the lines. I don't care much about the lines, but if I did I would talk about line weights. Fine lines can be no lines, because all they do is get the form to show. Line weights show thicker lines for shadow areas and thin lines for bright lit areas. I think that is part of preference and style, because anything you do will be fine as long as it looks normal with real life forms.
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:iconiridescentstardust:
IridescentStardust Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I do understand where you're coming from, but for a lot of pixel artists, that perfect line is exactly part of the whole art form. Especially in smaller pixel-art, where every individual pixel is specifically placed, colored a specific color. A lot of the time, artists do need to get pretty specific.

For example, if someone was painting their room with a Dark Red. They ran out of paint, and decide to go for something similar but not exact - a Rose Red. The color of the room would be off, and instead of that pleasant environmental feeling that dark red would have given, they will be constantly bothered by the two colors of red clashing with each other.

I appreciate the suggestions, and may try experimenting with line weights! However, using a 1px line for outlines is a heavy set part of my style, and everyone loves little tips and tricks to move things along faster :heart: That's what I'm searching for.
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:iconpygmynoodles:
pygmynoodles Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Student General Artist
Skill has nothing to do with wanting 1px lines. "Dreams make them blind to the facts"? What are you talking about? Did you even read what she was asking?
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, did you?
This is not just about 1px lines, this is about doing them in Sai.

I think what I saw looks fine, because it is practice. Working on the finest details takes time, while they are losing the experience they could have had.
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:iconpygmynoodles:
pygmynoodles Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012  Student General Artist
What do you mean by "working on the finest details takes time"? She's not asking for a cheat. She's asking how to achieve 1px lines in SAI, because anything other than that would not be considered pixel art - as you should know. She just didn't realize that there was a binary tool, so she was trying to find out where else she could find an aliased tool. I'm just wondering where you saw any room for critique in her question. :V
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:iconblackfyrevalyrian:
BlackfyreValyrian Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012
You obviously know nothing about pixel art, so why bother commenting. Like you should be talking about "skills" when you have none? Or perhaps find a section you actually know something about like... being a tool? Oh. That's right. Tools aren't welcome in art communities because tools are just douchebags that are too much of pussies to BE douchebags. Sorry, I forgot.
Cool down bro, you shouldn't even be in the pixel art section. If you're going to be a dick, get off the computer and find therapy so your fucked up tiny brain can actually go find better ways to express your obvious deep set insecurities. You're not a troll, you're annoying.
There's my suggestion to you.
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You should look before you leap into that one.

Even if I rarely post my pixel art here I do get paid a lot for doing it on websites, and programs.

I would not call this a good example because it is only a small piece. My pixel art is very different from yours and maybe that is why I get paid for it.

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:iconblackfyrevalyrian:
BlackfyreValyrian Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012
Maybe some people do it for happiness and not money. I don't need to get paid for what I do, and I don't care if you feel like you do or that you think you're better than everyone else. You're not. Everyone has room to improve, even "professional" paid artists.
So quit your elitist bullshit and stop being an asshole to people just because it gives you the warm and fuzzies. It's a pig move, and honestly perhaps it's no wonder you only get paid for pixel art as that attitude in the real world wouldn't get you anywhere. Just saying. Would you want someone to say to you what you just said to Hollinesskiss? I highly doubt it.
How about YOU go work on your "skill" and stop going around being a douche to people?
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Now, I never insulted anyone, but you used asshole, attitude, Hollinesskiss, douche.

Are you a troll?
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:iconblackfyrevalyrian:
BlackfyreValyrian Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012
Hollinesskiss is ^hollinesskiss. Wow, you didn't even pay attention to the person you shamelessly came on and basically told their art was shit and your opinion matters cause you're a "professional"? Really? Saaaaaad.
And if you have to honestly ask that question, I question why you are even on the internet.
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
A troll seems to be a person that like to respond to replies to pick a fight, and that fits you perfect. I just asked the question so you can come up with an excuse that can get you out of what you just made it look like. But apparently you don't need an excuse because you are a troll.
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:iconblackfyrevalyrian:
BlackfyreValyrian Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012
Why should I ever have to excuse myself to someone like you? I can do whatever the hell I like, when I like. You're just butthurt because you know I'm right. A troll seems to be a person that goes on to things they know nothing about to post completely irrelevant stupid opinions that only make you look like a jackass. Don't pretend to know things, stick to writing about what you know and kindly gtfo out of this community. I don't need excuses, thank you. I am quite content with stating my thoughts and proving my point.
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:iconelizabeth-s:
elizabeth-s Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Um.... 1px brushes are kind of important for pixel work. Anything bigger means you lost control over where each pixel goes.

And you don't need varying line weights for pixel art since it tends to be so small that you'd never be able to get the detail you want AND the super-thick lines. That's why you shade and highlight the linework when you do pixels. :I

Perhaps you're not familiar with pixel art?
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It might be hard for people to understand better lines come with experience.

If you draw hundreds of pictures your lines will be much better than the artist hung up on drawing one picture with great lines.

This post was not about just drawing better lines, it is about drawing better lines in Sai. If they want better pixel lines the can make them in Windows Paint.

So they are getting picky with a program, that is just a tool to for drawing.
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:iconelizabeth-s:
elizabeth-s Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
What? No. You're missing the point.

They like Sai.
Sai is pretty much their default program by now.

Paint.
Paint is nice for pixel work because that's pretty much all it's good for

Sure, they could switch to Paint when they want to do pixel work, BUT it's a lot easier to be able to use the same program. Plus, Sai has a LOT more features than Paint has such as layers, a stronger magnification capability, etc. that make pixel work such as dolling much easier since you can have the body on one layer, the hair on another, yadda yadda yadda while being able to zoom in incredibly close to place individual pixels. It may also have transparency support, but my trial ran out ages ago so I haven't touched it recently enough to know for sure. If it does, then that's also a major plus.


They're picky for a VERY good reason.

I honestly NEVER use Paint when I do my pixel work. Why? Because it can't handle transparency, the magnification only goes up to 800x, and it doesn't have layers. It's good for beginner pixel artists or people who can't get GIMP (since it's free and absolutely wonderful for pixel work), but I wouldn't wish it on anyone. :I
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:icontacsayo:
Tacsayo Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012   Digital Artist
where the heck is the like button for this comment e3e i agree
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:iconelizabeth-s:
elizabeth-s Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Heh. Thanks.

And every single one of their comments just shows that they really don't know what they're talking about with pixel art. Sure, Paint will work, but using GIMP would be a lot better. Photoshop would work, too. Same with Paint.NET.

All three of those are a lot better at pixel art than Paint simply because the zoom function is better, they support transparency, and they have layers. Anything else is just icing on the cake, to be perfectly honest.

Granted, I'm still a newb when it comes to pixel art, but at least I'm working on educating myself instead of just spouting stuff.
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:icontacsayo:
Tacsayo Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012   Digital Artist
your binary must be locked if it is make a copy of it

you can get 1.0 or 1 for the sizes
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:iconiridescentstardust:
IridescentStardust Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Sorry, not really sure what you mean by that ^^; Could you explain in a bit more detail?
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:icontacsayo:
Tacsayo Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2012   Digital Artist
ok sometimes the tool can be locked so it makes pixel not look as you want them to

but if you make a new brush it should go to 1.0 (right click in an empty box and click binarypen.

You can also set it to soft to where it flows with your tablet pen .
Mines is set to
----
40
hard<->Soft
----
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